Dangerous Political Currents
I think it is time for everyone to take a hard look at trying to restore the two state solution for Israel/Palestine conflict, said to be the source of many of the problems in the Middle East.
Jimmy Carter has written a new book 'Palestine Peace Not Apartheid' designed to engage in a fresh debate and a fresh look at restarting peace talks for the Middle East. The title is provacative on purpose.
Let those that are provoked by the title open the debate. A fairly small segment of the hard right in Israel have not honored the boundaries outlined in the 1967 Peace Treaty and it has been the source of much death and many conflicts. Yet as in our own country within the center of Israel the people hold a much more liberal view, operate an enterprising country, and are not so interested in pushing the boundaries of Israel past those declared in the treaty.
Be reminded that Carter negotiated the peace agreement between Egypt and Israel that has held for years without breach. Why, because there was an 85% concensus on the treaty by both sides.
Reaching strong concensus is important in moving forward with the Middle East. The divide in the support for the Iraq invasion and the lack of clear goals has caused much confusion as to what the goals actually were and led to this huge vacuum of fire and blood that has left so many scratching their heads and pointing fingers of blame and has the potential to create a huge chasmic shift in the balance of power in the Middle East.
There are those that balk at the slightest criticism of Israel. George Soros is considering starting a Palestinian version of Aipac to counterbalance what is seen by some as a strong Jewish bias to create a powerful lobby for peace. I expect he and Jimmy Carter will be resoundingly mocked as fools by those that seem more interested in nuclear solutions rather than for difficult negotiations.
There are even those that consider any discussion of both sides where Palestian is not painted as the wrong doer Israeli issue dangerous.
Fortunately, neither the majority of the American public nor most of Mr. Brzezinski's fellow Democrats would agree with his views, but it would be a mistake to make light of the dangerous currents trying to reshape American politics and public opinion against Israel.
I hope that a healthy debate can ensue about how to bring at least some stabiity to the Middle East. It is over due. I applaud those who are looking for solutions instead of pretending that the answer to all of these problems is just to blow everything up.
No one is above reproach. Israel included.
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I'll go first
I still have a lot to learn about the beginnings of this war...sorry-I know it is supposed to be called a conflict or crisis or whatever, but they are at war and have been for what, 60 some odd years now?
I will go on record as one who is on that "blow everything up side" that you can't do that in Israel/Palestine. And, I will go on record saying that what little I HAVE learned so far, the Jews were pretty dandy at using terrorism in their own right, as far as back before they got any official status from the UN.
There is no innocent victim here to be sure. That said however, one of the fundamental problems I see that is in the way of any resolution is Jerusalem and the religious "heels dug in" crowds. The Jews are not going to give that up, nor are the Palestinians. And, the other problem is they are still wrapped up in "who started it" and whether or which of them gets to get the last shot in, and claim victory. Neither side seems ready to accept "truce" or "we fight to a draw, now let's just get along"...there's a lot of righteous indignation floating around.
I wholly agree peace in Israel/Palestine would go a long way towards peace in the greater middle east, but the problem is their neighbors seem hell bent on denying Israel's right to exist, and the anti-Zionist underpinnings that keep any of them from agreeing to coexist in peace.
Someone is going to have to blink.
Well put
I'd add that while there are certainly extremists on both sides, IMO Israel is making the bulk of the concessions and I do not see adequate reciprocation. The terrorist groups need to be brought under control by the Palestinian government, and at the moment there is too much overlap (or at least tacit support) for this to occur. Not unlike Iraq in some ways.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Link for above statements
for example see here
.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
As someone who is familiar with most of the history
Jimmy Carter's views are very interesting if 60 years late. But the problem is that Conservatives on both sides cannot stand the idea of peace and feel (correctly) that a liberal, open, secular country there would diminish their power to use fear and victim-hood to fuel their corruption.
As a result any time anyone manages to get anywhere near a peace of any sort, some right wing wacko, either Likud, Kahanist, or Islamic Jihad, or Hezbulla, throws a monkey wrench into the works.
For the moment the Right Wing on both sides ride the fear wave such that I am amazed that anyone wants to live there. Perhaps Carter can lead a real movement from the left on both sides, to build the kind of place anyone would care to live in. If the Right Wing on one side or the other doesn't car bomb them.
The Self Made Man is just not admitting where he got all the parts.
I can't pretend I understand
all the complexities or history of the situation. I admire Jimmy Carter's efforts to bring this issue up.
Speaking of Right Wing...... David Duke who took of the garb of the Klan and replaced it with a suit. David Duke has been giving speeches in Syria!!!!
Where in the world. David in Damascus
How bizarre is it that we staunchly support Israel no matter what, and yet the Saudi Oil barrons who might be supporting Iran are the Presidents and his father best buddies.
And after Bush recent trip abroad the US allies in the MidEast are said to be in a near state of Panic
from the LA Times
So is it safe to say that there is a global Power Shift in the making?
Panic time yet? Or is a little piece of humble pie just exactly what the Dr. ordered.
It is the economy, stupid.
The Saudi Sunni's are never likely ..
.... to support Shiite Iran, and may be in a war with them over Iraq.
Already they are making noises about supporting the Sunnis there, in the civil war that could become a regional one at any time. There are more sides to this than a Fuller Dome, and that alone is probably all that is keeping as much peace as there is (and we all know that there ain't much).
Paul Krugman pointed out that our choices are parring down to unimaginably horrible, and even worse. I fear he is right.
The Self Made Man is just not admitting where he got all the parts.
Why?
Why is Israel our ally? I can't think of a single thing they've ever done for us. In fact, all I see is a parasite using us for political advantage, and doing everything in its power to make us as hated as they are in the Arab world.
After 9/11, a fresh look at our alliances was in order -- still is. If Israel can give us one good reason to favor them over the Palestinians -- and the military advantage they provide is far too costly in political advantages, natch -- then perhaps we could reconsider retaining their friendship. But we should be more concerned with our own welfare and our relationships with Arab nations than we are about Israel.
The only value...
...that I can see as them bringing to the table is that their human intelligence particularly in the middle east surpasses ours and from what I read they share at least some of that data with us.
Other than that though bumpkis, and they cost us a lot.
But to answer your question really I have to say that this alliance is not a matter of foreign policy but of politics. Israel lobbies our government to stay its friend to a degree that no other nation even comes close to. So while the US would be well served by moving away from them the political machines are so deep in Israel's pocket that nobody will actually do it.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
For this reason...
...among others i think that even if lobbying in general remains legal that lobbying by foreign powers should be strictly outlawed.
Really how much more common sense does it get than not to let your national rivals have a direct hand in your internal politics?
Here's my list of lobbying options from one I like most to least:
1) outlaw all lobbying. Period.
2) outlaw all lobbying except by american interest groups (NRA, NARAL, Sierra, etc.). No corporate lobbies, no Foreign lobbies.
3) outlaw foreign lobbying. Allow all domestic groups, individuals, and corporations.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Why?
Because the US and the UN with Harry Trumans help created the state of Israel so that the refugees from WWll would have someplace to call home.
It wasn't a fun decision for Truman to make, and he knew it could prove to be thorny...... and it has.
Israelites are much like us. There are liberals and conservatives. The liberals are much more interested in having peace with Palestine.
It is the economy, stupid.