Labor Day Open Thread
Scores of people who were apparently planning to protest the RNC's visit to the twin cities were arrested on Friday. The information is still sketchy at this point, but a joint St. Paul-FBI task force entered several homes with no-knock warrants and SWAT gear to detain and question members of "Food Not Bombs" and the "RNC Welcoming Committee". Of over 50 people detained, only 3 were eventually charged with a crime -- conspiracy to incite a riot. Others were preliminarily charged with fire code violations. Links:
Star Tribune
Salon (w/video)
NY Times
Today also starts the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
Submitted by stinerman on Mon, 2008-09-01 07:19
Tags:

Comments :
Sir, may I check my meat?
Odd question? Sure, it probably makes you wonder exactly what the heck I'm talking about.
I clarify
.
The little things that make me shrug....
In a perfect world
The justices of this court would be made to eat a sample of meat from every animal they prohibited testing.
Sic semper tyrannis
From what I read the USDA have the only test out for it and
they essentially refused to sell Creekstone the kit's they need to test all their meat.
Sounds like an excellent spot for private industry to step up and create a test kit. Honestly, if a packer wants to test all their product, I think they should be able to. The government can take a flying leap but in this case, they hold all the cards.
I commented on this earlier
The USDA controls access to the tests and would not sell Creekstone enough kits to test all their beef.
The USDA claims that testing all the cattle would undermine efforts to show that 1% testing is good enough. "Big Beef" believes if Creekstone tests 100%, they'll have to follow suit based on consumer demand.
I don't know enough about Mad Cow, but the USDA says that the tests won't even work properly based on the age of the cattle they're testing.
I don't see how any of this is relevant. If Creekstone wants to test all their cattle, they should be allowed to do so. However, they should not be able to market their beef as inherently safer unless there is strong evidence to that effect.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Electric cars, energy and whatnot
A podcast
some might find interesting.
I haven't listened to it yet but it sounds good.
I thought it might interest some of you...
It's funny how the media is NOT covering the SWAT & FBI
round ups in St. Paul. I saw an article Saturday on CNN & they made it sound like the cops were arresting dirty hippies & Weather Underground folks who had already done illegal stuff. Hmm....anyone know where Bill Ayers is?
Now,
St. Paul Police Conduct Mass Pre-Emptive Raids Ahead of Republican Convention
I perfectly understand the police arresting people and sizing firearms and explosives (although I bet NRA would disagree with me here) - bbut video cameras? Cellular phones? Who trained these guys? Unemployed KGB officers? These are precisely the tactics of a totalitarian state, although nowadays they take electronics instead of reams of blank paper and typewriters from the dissidents.
Sic semper tyrannis
Come on Woodster...
As you can see from my post below, they took urine bombs, anti bus weapons, slingshots, etc.
The cell phones and video cameras were seized as evidence to prove their intent.
Duh...?
Funny how we never here about a bunch of conservatives huddled up in a house somewhere planning terror activities, ...oh I'm sorry to disparage their honorable constitutionally protected right to free speech...right?
LOL!
Why not be honest, and condemn these people, people like them, and this kind of non productive nonsense? Protesting is one thing, this is something else all together.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Gosh darn it
congratulations on the great police work are due, I can see. I'm glad they didn't visit me here, because my barn contains one or more of almost all of the items listed in the article. I guess I must be some kind of an anarchist terrorist. Now I'll have to self criticize and condemn myself.
Sic semper tyrannis
Cellphones and video cameras?
I'm screwed, too.
I believe the group wanted to be sure to have video cameras to document what they were doing in case they were taken to court. Obviously without such documentation, it would be their word against the police officers'.
This group is known for documenting police activity and consequently getting officers in trouble who have abused their power.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Geeze, only is you plan to use them to plot!
Wait I'm confused.
Our government sucks when it doesn't stop terrorism, but then when it does it's over reaching?
I am proud of them, just as I was proud they caught the jerk offs in Denver, which coincidentally I heard little objection to here regarding law enforcement over reaching in that case!
LOL!
Hmmm.. wonder why that was...
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
I was actually referring to
article in the link provided by Red_Wing, which listed:
I don't have any caltrops or large amounts of urine but would rolls of barbed wire and pig manure slurry do?
Sic semper tyrannis
Er... you want to stand by that?
Do you really
want to stand
by that
?
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Ok, I'll give you the abortion nuts....
...but the others were unstable individuals of which come in every denomination. My point is still valid though, that you constantly hear about these leftist "GROUPS" planning crap like this and bigger more scary stuff.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Not actually urine
The "anarchists" have said that the "buckets of urine" were actually buckets of greywater
used to flush the toilet. Its more environmentally friendly to use dirty wastewater in one's toilet.
Regardless of what they were planning, the police actions were unprofessional and heavy-handed or does everyone violating fire codes get SWAT team treatment?
I'm not going to condemn anyone for anything they haven't done yet.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
The anarchist's claim...? LOL!!!! n/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
It is a rights violation, plain and simple
I think the very simple fact is that these people were going to protest the convention as is their right. The city did not want egg on their face and wanted to make absolutely sure there would not be another Seattle. Therefore, they wanted to make a show of force and detain some people wanting to exercise their rights until after the convention was over.
If you want to be sure that no one will ever get inconvenienced, offended, hurt, or even killed by protesters, we can start preemptively locking up everyone who speaks out about the government.
We do not use prior restraint here. We don't arrest people for crimes they might commit unless we have indisputable evidence. This is the cost of freedom.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
If you were planning commit a kidnapping...
...and law enforcement got wind of it, and they watched you, and gathered information that supported the plot, and they knew that you had telephone records, pictures of where you were going to execute the crime, all of that would be collected to support the prosecution.
Whats the big deal?
Why didn't you get all huffy about the jerks in Denver?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
I wouldn't be charged with fire code violations
Yes, and I would be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, not a fire code violation. If the police had a good case, every last one of these people would be in jail awaiting a trial. I can guarantee you right now, NONE of these people will ever have their day in court. Charges will be dismissed after the convention.
All I heard about in Denver was the ABC producer who was arrested for standing on the sidewalk.
Thats crap, too.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Remember the Meth'd out hillbillies who had guns...
...and were accused then not accused of wanting to shoot Obama?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
They had outstanding warrants
So they should have been arrested.
I can't find any story regarding how the police found them, but that would matter. If they violated the rights of these "meth'd out hillbillies" then, yes, I'd be just as upset.
In any case, nether of these guys are going to be charged with attempted murder.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections...
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Moving on... n/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Does that include bombing Iran?
I know some might feel that isn't very funny but that's what I meant when I said it.
It does indeed
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Its ok
The US is not the Soviet Union and things are being done on a smaller scale and some of the people could have be up to throwing urine or rocks, so life is peachy.
From the salon.com link:
For the DNC shenagians, sidewalks are private property??? A reporter can be arrested be on a sidewalk?
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
McCain sent 8 to AK to vet Sarah Palin. They're still there.
According to this well linked post at Balloon Juice:
"Andrew Halcro, one of the Republicans who ran against Palin in 2006, is reporting that the McCain campaign has begun vetting their candidate:
The campaign of John McCain has sent a staff of eight people into Alaska to conduct background checks and vetting on Governor Sarah Palin. Word is they have have eight rooms reserved at a Wasilla hotel.
Vetting someone after you put them on the ticket, part of the change we can all believe in.
Remember, when you say “supremely irresponsible,” the media says “bold.”
When you say “intemperate gambler,” the media says “maverick.”
When you say “not ready for primetime,” the media says “someone you want to have a beer with.”
The update article is funny too. Sarah was elected to the City Council in 1992, and became Mayor of Wasilla in 1996. Yet the first article on her in the local paper isn't till 1998. Makes you wonder what they write about in the local papers in Alaska...today's seal report? the caribou migrations? the oil pipeline dispatch?
Obsidian Wings has more details.
Every day when I think it couldn't get weirder...
...it gets weirder?
Secondly, this is a thread jack, what does this have to do with the topic?
But yes kindness... Once again your analysis is spot on.
Dem folk up in dat back country don't care bout no politik, wen da get bak from wuk at da wafinowy, da jus kleen ta dar guns ta kil dem seels, an dem karibu, an da al hate dos dat ain't lik dem.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
How do you thread jack an Open Thread?
All you need is a liberal to post a fact that a conservative is embarassed about & doesn't like.
Just so you understand...I never said Alaskan's were dumb. You must have brought that up, I don't think they are. I linked to a post that said McCain has 8 people who are still up in Alaska vetting Sarah Palin.
True, my mistake. I apologize. n/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
"Buckets of urine,
"Buckets of urine, slingshots, anti-bus weapons seized in raid on anti-RNC protesters
"
Sounds like justice was served!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Exhausted.
Pulled an all-nighter last night too keep up with Gustav's shenanigans. Seems mostly okay, although given that Katrina didn't reveal her damage until a day after, I'm not exactly sitting easy here.
At any rate, it looks like nothing nearly as disastrous as K. Which is good, although I'm happy to say that most people I know were sensible enough to leave this time.
(Confession: I don't know if I would have left. Sounds crazy, I know.)
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Glad to hear it
I suppose the silver lining from Katrina, and it's cold comfort I know, is that people seem to have handled the preparation for Gustav better. Helps that Gustav was weaker, of course.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Conversely,
people handled Katrina so badly because Ivan was so anticlimactic. Nothing increases apathy like failing to be destroyed for the umpteenth time.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
New Orleans is in a tough spot no matter what.
Much of it is below sea level and being right on the delta, the lake, the canal & the river....it is going to occasionally flood.
True, but
it's over 300 years old, so it can't be that bad a spot.
Everyone expects flooding from time to time. I could have told you before Gustav hit that the 9th ward would get some flooding: I grew up there, and it flooded after any kind of rain. Just not a good drainage system there, and dirt-poor, and low-priority for the city bureaucrats.
I'm more worried about the kind of catastrophic breakdown that we got during K, which I think we've avoided.
And due respect to Gov. Jindal for running a well-oiled machine.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Meet the Peacemaker
This
is kind of funny:
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Purpleface Speaks!
Heh
As part of my Second Life adventures, I am an officer for the Republican Party group there. Even though I am a fully disclosed independent :}
The group is doing podcasts, and Saturday's podcast was an officers' roundtable discussion. The first voice you hear is me, under my Lodi McMillan SL persona. Vyre is the other female voice, hers is much cuter than mine actually ;-) But then again she's about twenty years younger.
The Jerry Pournelle blog, which I quote in the podcast, is a good one.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
It's always nice to hear from you
SL isn't my cup of tea, but I'm glad you're on the up and up.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
You know the energy is weird when Bush tosses Bolton under
a bus:
"The New York Times reports that President Bush recently held an off-the-record meeting with conservative writers. During the meeting, Council on Foreign Relations fellow Max Boot asked Bush why he had diverted from the priorities of his first term. “That’s ridiculous,” Bush said. Boot then read from a Wall Street Journal op-ed by war hawk John Bolton in which Bolton said Bush’s presidency is “in total intellectual collapse.” Bush then lashed out at Bolton:
Bush grew more agitated at the mention of his own former senior diplomat. “Let me just say from the outset that I don’t consider Bolton credible,” the president said bitterly. "
Let's be sick & see what Pammy at AtlasShrugs thinks...hmmm. democrats hate America, check, democrats want riots in St. Paul, check, Obama thinks he's Jesus and is (muslim) a very scary black man, check, oh, hey Pammy is at the RNC hanging out with a bunch of other luminari, god I hope she isn't some districts Convention Delegate......no...nothing on how dubya hates Boltons guts. Damn. I coulda used the jolt that would have brought. Ah well, the week is young.
Bolton's a stud, Bush has lost his conservative pedigree...
...but did you even read the article
?
First of all it's...the NYT. So let's please just take that into consideration, the most liberal paper in the nation, who has virtually lost all credibility itself this year.
Second, read the article and you get a whole different vibe for the blurb Think
BackwardsProgress printed.But Bush probably wants it both ways, he won't get it that way though. I do believe history will judge him favorably however for his stand against terrorism if nothing else.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
You're right on that, conservatives now disown him. (n/t)
Disown is a liberal wish list thing...
...don't like much of what he did with his second term, sure. ;-)
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
If Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, and his wife Michelle had
an unmarried teenage daughter, what would the response be?
Jake Tapper asks.
Hmmm.......I don't have to think about this one very hard.
I hear what you are saying, we talked about that some...
First of all, just see here what kind of abhorrent things are being spread in the most infuencial liberal circles
!
...I think if she was getting an abortion it would never had been known, but if she kept it, which seems unlikely considering how her dad has commented on it being a burden, but if she did, I think it would be what it is. A family adding a new person to their clan.
Again, it seems to be a difference of perspective.
Conservatives do the best we can to raise our kids, and in the case something happens like that, we gather around and move on.
Liberals seem to find the arrival of a new child as an optional thing where hey, who's giving sally a ride down to planned parenthood?
When moral stands fall below a certain point and you have a child having multiple abortions...somethings wrong with your model, the education is not getting through, and why should it, worst case scenario, a free abortion is only a car ride away!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Fair warning
I'm driving down to the Dayton area for a job interview at a local law firm tomorrow morning, so I won't have time to post an open thread (its a 3.5hr drive from Sandusky).
So mods/contributors might want to throw something up early in the day tomorrow.
TTFN
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Good Luck Brother! n/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
The mostest and the bestest
luck to ya!
I hope you get it, especially if it is something you think you will like!
It is the economy, stupid.
All the best of luck, stinerman.
n/m
Good luck, man!
Rock the interview!
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Parle-tu le francais bien?
bon chance
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
*bonne ;) n/t
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Je parle le francais mal
Stupid genders for words, "chance" must be feminine and therefore Lady Luck, I guess.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! is arrested outside the RNC
convention. On the video here she says to the cop What are you doing? I just walked off the convention floor.
A likely story.
I'm waiting
for the rationale for this one...
Sic semper tyrannis
? Give me more to work with... N/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Bounds "Explains" Palin's CinC Readiness...
This is embarrassing to watch.
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678
Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
LMFAOALOL! Do you want me to simply replay this video?LOL!!!!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Red_Wing, I'm gonna like you being here...
You make me laugh--we both approach this video with confirmation bias. I admit that Obama has limited FP experience..but I would say his campaign management has shown how good he is at running an organization. This guy won't even admit it..and I don't think Palin has even written an op-ed on her views any major foreign policy issue, opting to use the "I've seen it on the news.." answer. What more, it's funny hearing people use the "Alaska is close to Russia" approach.
Here's how that "experience" of hers is going:
Seriously, would you let her run a company of yours?
Being that she's been governor of Alaska since December 2006, the jury is still out on how she's doing there.
But I get it. She's witty. She wants to drill ANWR. She's a reform Republican. And she excites conservatives....But she has an Obama-like checkered past (AIP for instance) that will take her down a few notches. So I think Obama will simply let the vetting process that was supposed to happen before the pick go on.
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678
Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
Do you think the Republican Party failed to VET Gov. Palin?
Naw... you are just finding out the few things McCain already knew.
She ran a company, the Alaskan Government.
She had 24,000 employees.
She was the CIC of the Alaskan National Gaurd.
She's been to Iraq.
Listen, when BO was walking around the ghetto in Chicago with Alinski's book rabble rousing, Sarah Palin already had 5 years of experience running a government in a town of 9,000.
While she has ascended the government in an executive fashion, making decisions and running the business of government, BO was learning how to work the system, sitting in meetings, attaching a billion dollars worth of earmarks to bills in order to get his votes.
So yes I would be honored to have SP as an employee or running one of my businesses!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
It's not that she
wasn't vetted at all -- it's whether she was vetted
carefully enough.
That's a conservative source. You tell me.
I would say it's too soon to be sure she wasn't vetted carefully enough, but there's a lot of potentially damaging information emerging about her record that it appears the McCain campaign wasn't aware of.
Not that it particularly matters what a liberal committed to voting for Obama thinks of the Republican VP pick, but that's my take.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
She's a 15 year public servant, her record is clear...
Of course she was vetted, why no concern about Biden being vetted? How about BARRY OBAMA HIMSELF! He couldn't even be accepted as a soldier in the Army! Let alone the POTUS!
Having stuff like the slimy NYT having THREE articles on it's FRONT page about SP's FAMILY is obnoxious and irrelevant!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Biden doesn't have to be vetted -
he's a public figure in the federal government: his laundry's already out in the national news rags. The reason the vetting question has come up with Palin is because she's a relative unknown outside her home state.
I agree with you on the NYT focusing so obsessively on Palin's family, which is just low class. They love doing this with female politicians: remember when analysis of Hillary Clinton's pantsuits was also front page material? Ugh.
However, Palin's decision to slash funding for public services for teen mothers
is fair game. (h/t dkos
) Even more so because the funding slash came via a line-item veto, so it's not as if she was just rejecting an overstuffed omnibus spending bill.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Hold on now -
I criticized a dkos diary above for being too cute about glossing over Palin's experience, so I won't let you do that either:
You mean, when then 2-term state Senator BO...
Also, given that Palin was nearly recalled as mayor, I'm not sure that's the best experience to look back on.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Oh my
Apparently this interview cheesed off McCain so much that he cancelled
a Larry King interview. Damn those press people and their infernal questioning!
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
hahaha
Well, like I told Brendan earlier, this is what we get for having a political culture where no phrase is more taboo than "I don't know." If Tucker Bounds had just admitted that he didn't know the answer to the question, he wouldn't have come off looking like such a boob, and Campbell Brown wouldn't have been able to grill him on his ignorance.
And it was a fair question to ask: if Bounds is touting Palin's experience as de facto commander-in-chief of the Alaskan branch of the National Guard as a good example of her readiness to be President, he should be ready to answer questions about it. Unable to cite a single fact about her experience? That's amazingly short-sighted, since he's the one who brought it up.
As one of the commenters in that link said, McCain should be firing Bounds rather than dropping the interview with the least aggressive questioner in all of mediadom.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Talking Dumb - Acting Tough...or vice-versa?
Barack Obama says he's "tired of listening to folks who talk tough and act dumb," then proceeds to talk tough and act dumb
Barack Obama shot off at the mouth at a Sunday evening speech in Michigan, saying the following
:
If Barack Obama making recklessly aggressive statements and bragging
about how eager he is to debate the Republican nominee sounds familiar
to you, well, you've been paying attention to the former community
organizer's braggadocios speeches over the last few months.
On May 16, Barack Obama bravely declared
that he would debate John McCain "anywhere, anytime."
"If John McCain wants to meet me anywhere, anytime, to have a debate
about our respective policies in Iraq, in Iran, in the Middle East or
around the world, that is a conversation I am happy to have," said
Obama to an adoring audience of "objective reporters" in Waterstown,
South Dakota. "I believe that there is no separation between John
McCain and George Bush...and I think their policy has failed."
Of course, the McCain campaign responded to this with an immediate
call for ten town hall-style "debates" -- a style and quantity unheard
of in recent presidential campaigns, when most candidates want to be
able to limit the damage that can occur as a result of going off-script
at any time.
The Obama campaign responded with a North Korea-style offensive,
that it was the McCain campaign that actually declined the opportunity.
refusing to participate (clearly, they too have heard Obama speak
without a TelePrompTer -- it is not pretty) but claiming
"It’s disappointing that Senator McCain and his campaign decided to
decline this proposal," said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe, who
was either the most confused man on the planet at the moment he
released that statement, or simply a bold-faced liar (those aren't
"new" in politics, Barry, just FYI).
In Springfield, MO at the end of July, Obama did the same thing,
comparing himself to Wild Bill Hickok and blurting out, "I'm ready to
duel John McCain on taxes right here, quick draw."
Again, the McCain campaign responded with an offer of real debates -
and again Obama holstered his pistol and spurred his horse out of town
before being made to back up his lip.
For a good ol' boy who claims to want to change so much, and to be
so eager to put his words, ideas, and "experience" to the test against
the GOP's nominee, Barack Obama sure does a whole lot of what he claims
to be tired of: "talk[ing] tough and act[ing] dumb."
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
If I wanted to read LittleGreenFootballs I'd go there.
It seems like that's what you keep rehashing here.
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't or can't, you can. But we are somewhat more open minded, tolerant and educated than your typical LGF poster. When we don't respond to you the way they would over there you have fits. What do you think the target audience is here? It's a diverse bunch of folks who have an interest in the world around them. We aren't locked into any one box as we pretty much span the spectrum.
1st - Jeff Emanuel, not LGF's...
...2nd - Kindness, you are locked in a prison of your own construction, and you don't even know it.
It's laughable, you of all people, being so haughty as you smugly attempt to make claim to some intellectual higher ground? HA!
Give me a break...
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman