Weekend Open Thread
The wait is over -- it's Biden . Is this good or bad for the Democrats and how will it affect McCain's decision?
Submitted by stinerman on Sat, 2008-08-23 05:49
Tags:
The wait is over -- it's Biden . Is this good or bad for the Democrats and how will it affect McCain's decision?
Comments :
Biden wouldn't be my first choice
I think he's too hawkish/hardline and too supportive of the war on drugs, plus he has a bad habit of putting his foot in his mouth.
On the other hand he certainly shores up the foreign policy experience aspect of the ticket and might be an effective promoter of some of the more liberal aspects of Obama's platform in a Nixon-to-China kind of way.
On balance I think it helps the ticket, I imagine Biden will bring in some independents concerned about foreign policy. It was smart of Obama earlier in the week to undercut the predictable attacks focused on Biden's earlier criticism of Obama by saying he was looking for a VP who wouldn't just be a yes-man, who would challenge him.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Considering all the forehead slapping and moaning
and laughing, it seems to be a less than stellar choice. I dunno.
But my friend in France called this one for McCain back in the early spring. He also called 2004 for Bush at about the same time...if not earlier. Funny part was that he said it was a "sure thing" according to French political scientists.
There weren't a lot of stellar choices
available, unfortunately. I always liked Richardson because he brings the foreign policy experience as well as executive background, but Biden is a better speaker and debater (if he can avoid any big gaffes, that is).
I don't think McCain has much of a chance. His campaign is already hauling out all their (already discredited) guilt-by-association attacks. Obama had a similar stretch against Hillary where it looked like the race was narrowing, but he won when it mattered. Come November I'd expect MCain to be down 5 in the polls... then we'll see if the GOP cooks up a desperate last-minute surprise to try to grab the election.
So what do libertarians think of Biden? I see areas of disagreement but some potential agreement too...
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I haven't seen much but what I saw was in my Google Reader
first thing this morning.
The very unpolitical Peter Boettke, economics Professor at GMU said: Joe Biden?!
He finds Joe's disdain for Natural Law to be problematic but thinks this isn't overly important since his main purpose is in Foreign Policy.
Tyler looks at the economics of Joe Biden
by examining his record. He says mixed but not overly terrible. He looks at his battle with a stutter in his youth that he overcome. And quips that his direct style would be good in academia.
Anarcho-capitalist Jeffery Tucker
:
Liberty Papers
had three words.
That's all I got so far. Not overly positive I would say....but not for reasons that matter in our Pre-K level discourse so I don't expect these to be themes that matter. However, they seem to feel the race just got tighter. We'll see.
Center-Left Democratic Economist Mark Thoma
is not happy about it
.
He didn't say much but it was clear.
Once again, Biden (D-MBNA)
As far as I'm concerned Biden will always have (D-MBNA) after his name.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Selective Honesty
"Wages are going nowhere, no economic growth, no wage growth etc., etc., etc."
OK. If that's your story then stick to it.
But some just can't.
Depending on the theme in question, the above statement applies perfectly for some people. But for the same people, plan b works too when it works for them.
Consider the Economic Policy Institute
, a liberal think thank on economic issues glowing on the CBO's positive assessment of SS's future:
OK then. Wages will continue to grow. Check.
The pick of Joe Biden...
...unfortunately only goes to underscore the inexperience of Barack Obama.
What happened to change? He picks a 40 year Washington insider! LOL?
And now the Clinton people are furious!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
You are so funny. What are you going to do about Romney?
You know, the part where McCain names him as VP.
In your ideal world he'd pick Darth Cheney, but Darth needs the get out of jail free card dubya will give everyone on 1/19/09.
Honestly, I think your opinions are more valid wrt Republican & conservative notions. I really think if you want any validity in progressives you should let us define ourselves. Your definitions are biased towards absurd.
How many houses do they have
between the two of them, like 12 or 13?
It is the economy, stupid.
Not a great start fella's, how uncomfortable can two guy's be?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Furious!
The "Clinton people" who are furious are the fringe elements that still think Hillary will win the floor vote at the Dem convention.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Wishful thinking....
Of course she'll publicly say the "PC" thing, but read between the lines. Her endorsements have been luke warm at best, and her supporters are your problem not her per say. And you know privately she's loving it! ;-)
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Really...huh? This is how fully 1/2 of all democrats feel!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Funny
Fully 1/2? Ha ha ha. Comedian.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Oh, good lord.
Please don't post nonsense pics here. For one thing, the font is too small, and I can't even make out this long list of things Obama has supposedly failed to follow through.
By the way, if you think fully half of Democrats feel this way, you need to get out and meet more Democrats. Whatever may be going on on the blogs, I don't know a single non-internet Democrat who gives a flying fig.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Well, thats sorta funny because...
...Hillary won 18 million votes, and this is from the democrats
that intend to get her nominated in the roll call 
at the convention. Maybe you neend to meet more democrat's... ;-)
Why does no one want to admit there is a huge issue here, and its about to boil over at Denver.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
If it were legal,
I'd put money down right now to say that nothing significant happens in Denver.
18 million votes went to Clinton, and most of those had no problem shifting to Obama when Clinton dropped out of the race. Most of the Democrats I know were Clinton supporters, and not a single one has a problem with Obama. Heck, Clinton herself doesn't have a problem with supporting Obama, so why should you?
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
well, that is a superficial...
....explanation.
Look into it. Let me ask you, why do you think Obama opened the convention to a roll call? Why do you think there are all these org's of Democrats who are PO'd and are going do something about it.
Democrats got PO'd about the Bush victory, then did it to Hillary, she won the popular vote in the primary right?
Like I said, you may wanna look into it and not rely on you circle of friends for your research.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
She won the popular vote?
You mean if you toss out caucuses, right? ;)
Here's my prediction of what happens at the convention:
- Most of the convention goes exactly as planned, with Obama accepting the nomination and Clinton enthusiastically supporting him.
- A small and disorganized protest pulls off nothing at all.
- After it's over, the PUMA crowd claims that the media ignored their massive protest because they're in Obama's pocket, and the DNC shut down their protest because they're in Obama's pocket, too, and that Obama is arrogant and hateful and all kinds of terrible things and of course he'll lose to McCain.
- Obama wins handily in November.
Like I said, I'd happily lay down a few bucks if I didn't have issues with gambling in general.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
The popular vote in the primary
Ain't no such thing as "the primary." Clinton certainly one the popular vote in some of the primaries, as did Obama.
Pretty amazing if half the Democrats aren't voting for Obama, but he is still tied/ahead of McCain. I guess your guy really sucks! :P
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Zing! n/t
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
The fact is Hillary won more votes...
... during the primaries than Obama, she won the popular vote!
Zing! ???
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
That's irrelevant, RW
First for the obvious reason that nominees are not chosen by national popular vote.
But, secondly, even if it counted for something, it's misleading because voter behavior was affected by that whole Michigan /Florida ordeal and Obama voters did not turn out.
It's relevent to Hillary supporters apearantly! n/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Well,
Uh...
I say no more. ;)
LOL!...
You know it doesn't matter to me, and I realize being as I seem to be the only conservative that comes around I too often end up being in three conversations that all add up for me and I end up sounding like a partisan cook here and there. But what interests me is how it seems like the real issues that affect the democrats gets swept under the table or not sincerely addressed.
For instance this sediment on the part of millions of Hillary supporters is made light of or dismissed entirely? Well, the fact is they are a potent entity, believe me BO does not want a roll call at convention, in fact it is the last thing he wants, yet he did, he had to put her on the ballot and even have an open roll call!
Why was that? Because he was forced to by these pressures.
Anyway?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
They don't accept the premise
It is a shame that Ender, GoRight, and Bird Dog aren't here as much. They'd be able to back you up more often.
The reason why it seems some Democrats or Obama supporters are sweeping stuff like this under the rug is because they don't accept your premise.
I admit it is within the realm of possibility that the party line regarding the roll call vote may be false (namely, that Obama wanted HRC to be placed in nomination), but I've not seen any strong evidence of this. No one is intentionally looking the other way, they just don't see things the same way you do.
To me, it seems reasonable that Obama wants a roll call vote because then the Clinton supporters will be able to voice their opinion, which would help end any ill will between the two camps. In fact, that's what I would do because it seems to be the best way to heal any divisions. A Stalinesque "vote as you're told" approach probably wouldn't do any good. The Kucinich delegates in 2004 were not happy with it so I don't think the even stronger Clinton supporters would like it any more.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Ah, it's too bad you weren't around
during the halcyon days of GoRight, Ender, even MadScientist (who drove me nuts, but always brought stuff to the table). Our conservatives seem to be more transient than our liberals.
I wonder if there's a particular reason for that? Anyone care to make a broad generalization from an insufficient sample?
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Three reasons
which interact
1) liberals are more common on the web in general
2) conservative mindsets tend to be much more insular, which promotes a "nesting" behavior (i.e. surrounding yourself with familiar and comfortable inputs). Liberals certainly do this too, just not quite as much. It's much the same as why liberals tend to be more interested in exploring other views while conservatives tend to be more confident that their current preferences are superior without examination.
If you watch political websites a lot you see that there are a lot more cases of liberals going to conservtive sites to engage them than vice versa. Partially that's a function of the demographics (#1 above) but it is also a function of inherent differences in how the two groups see the world.
As a further example consider how conservative by and large consider any attempt to understand why 9/11 happened as excusing the act or blaming america. That's a pretty stark example of the difference in mindset- generic conservative isn't looking to understand only respond because the idea that there might be any validity to other views is not to be countenanced.
3) online groups, especially competitive groups (in the sense of debating issues that are contentious), need a certain critical mass to be stable. Because of 1 and 2 above we have trouble getting enough conservatives at once to get that. Instead we get one conservative at a time who ends up arguing with half a dozen liberal posters and quickly gets frustrated and leaves.
On edit- it probably goes without saying but the above characteristics are generalizations and are not in any way meant to be taken as iron clad rules that apply to every conservative or liberal.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Uh, no she didn't.
Only if you include Michigan
, and if you do, you have to admit that's a mind-boggling dishonest way to tally the numbers. Include a state where Obama wasn't on the ballot as per party rules? That's more than a bit crazy.
This whole line of argument is tired: Clinton withdrew, and most of her supporters have had no problem switching over. I don't see what your problem is.
Eh, it's a moot point anyway. The PUMAs aren't going to mount anything of substance at the convention, and Clinton will release her delegates to Obama.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Point of order
Obama wasn't off the ballot in michigan due to party rules. He voluntarily withdrew his name even though he didn't have to. That being the case there's no reason not to include michigan in a total of popular votes.
However, that being said, it doesn't particularly matter because:
a) As John (and probably many others) have pointed out the nominee is not selected by popular vote; and
b) There's no reason to believe that all hillary voters are against Obama. Saying that 52% of people prefer ketchup on their hot dog doesn't mean that they hate mustard. They just don't like it quite as much.
In other words this is an artifact of our system of voting. If we were using preference voting I have little doubt you'd see strong support for Obama across democrats.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Fair enough -
you're right.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
This happens more than you'd think
In 1968, the popular vote winner for the Republicans was none other than Ronald Reagan. In 1964, the popular vote winner for the Democrats was Pat Brown.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Ezra Klein on Biden
in this link
, He shows a quick fire video by the McCain group using Biden's own words against him. Hmmm.
Longer thoughts here
.
Some different reactions.
On policy, he's got some major weak spots that we should be concerned about (Jay Elias had a good short essay
on it here), but he's overall more liberal than Obama based on the Lewis-Poole system 
. I'm with Brendan in having hoped for a Richardson spot instead, although there's no denying Biden is a better speaker than Richardson. Biden's economic populist shtick was given a boost by McCain's house comments, but whether that holds through the election is another story. How Biden handles his own skeletons is another question.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Yes, the war on drugs thing is a big negative
although I gather he supports
treatment rather than incarceration, which is something anyway.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Comprehensive MSM reaction to Obama/Biden...
The Associated Press's Ron Fournier: "The Candidate Of Change Went With The Status Quo." "The candidate of change went with the status quo. ... He picked a 35-year veteran of the Senate -- the ultimate insider -- rather than a candidate from outside Washington..." (Ron Fournier, "Analysis: Biden Pick Shows Lack Of Confidence," The Associated Press, 8/23/08)
Fournier: "[B]iden is anything but a change agent, having been in office longer than half of all Americans have been alive." (Ron Fournier, "Analysis: Biden Pick Shows Lack Of Confidence," The Associated Press, 8/23/08)
ABC's Jake Tapper: "The Freshman Senator Selected As His Running Mate A Six-Term Senate Institution..." "Obama is running on the slogan change we can believe in, but the freshman senator selected as his running mate a six-term senate institution, Senator Joe Biden of Delaware." (ABC's "Good Morning America," 8/23/08)
ABC's Jake Tapper: Biden Taking Lobbyist Money "A Direct Contradiction Of The Obama Message." "Obama may decry lobbyist cash (or at least federal lobbyist cash), but Biden has taken $344,400 from lobbyists since 1997 -- making lobbyists the 10th biggest contributing industry. That seems a direct contradiction of the Obama message." (Jake Tapper, "Obama Decries Lobbyist Cash; Biden Has Reaped It In," ABC News, 8/23/08)
Los Angeles Times: "Biden Is A Washington Insider." "At the same time, as a 36-year Senate veteran, Biden is a Washington insider, an image that is at odds with the theme of change Obama has promoted." (Stuart Silverstein And Johanna Neuman, "Biden's The Pick, Sources Confirm," Los Angeles Times, 8/23/08)
McClatchy Newspapers: Biden Is "A Washington Insider." "The decision to go with Biden, 65, a Washington insider, over a younger politician with a lesser known national profile, such as Obama's friend Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, reflects how tight the contest is between Obama and Republican John McCain." (Margaret Talev and David Lightman, "Obama names Sen. Joe Biden as his vice-presidential pick," McClatchy Newspapers, 8/23/08)
New York Post's Charles Hurt: "Biden Is A Consummate Washington Insider." "On the downside, Biden is a consummate Washington insider. He was first elected to the Senate in 1973 at the age of 29 and plagiarism charges forced him from the 1988 presidential contest." (Charles Hurt, "Joe Biden Wins The Veepstakes," New York Post, 8/23/08)
CNN's Candy Crowley: "Well, the downside is, this is a campaign of change, who is selecting -- which is selecting a man who's been in the Senate for over three decades. There is that." (CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," 8/22/08)
Real Clear Politics' Tom Bevan: "Biden has been in the United States Senate for 36 years -- he was elected in 1972, the year Barack Obama turned eleven -- making him, for better or worse, a quintessential Washington insider." (Tom Bevan, "Obama Goes With Biden," Time's "The Real Clear Politics" Blog, time-blog.com, 8/23/08)
Biden Pick Only Highlights Obama's Inexperience:
The Associated Press' Ron Fournier: "[T]here's the 2007 ABC interview in which Biden said he would stand by an earlier statement that Obama was not ready to serve as president. It seems Obama is worried that some voters are starting to agree." (Ron Fournier, "Analysis: Biden Pick Shows Lack Of Confidence," The Associated Press, 8/23/08)
Newsweek's Howard Fineman: "[Obama] All But Confessed His Lack Of Knowledge Of Foreign Affairs By Selecting As His Running Mate The Senate's Senior Democratic Leader On That Topic." (Howard Fineman, "No Ordinary Joe: The Politics Of The Veep Pick--And What He Brings To The Party," Newsweek, 8/23/08)
Real Clear Politics' Tom Bevan: "He wanted someone who could reinforce his message of change, but he needed someone with experience." (Tom Bevan, "Obama Goes With Biden," Time's "The Real Clear Politics" Blog, time-blog.com, 8/23/08)
Bevan: "[O]bama has spent the last 2 years discounting the experience of folks in the Bush administration, discounting the experience of Hillary Clinton, and now discounting the experience of John McCain by saying that what matters is judgment, not the number of years someone has spent in Washington. Obama's pick belies that notion, especially since the core of Obama's 'judgment' argument centers on his opposing the Iraq war from the beginning. Joe Biden voted for the Iraq war." (Tom Bevan, "Obama Goes With Biden," Time's "The Real Clear Politics" Blog, time-blog.com, 8/23/08)
Political Weakness Leads To New, Negative Obama:
The Associated Press' Ron Fournier: "For All His Self-Confidence, The 47-Year-Old Illinois Senator Worried That He Couldn't Beat Republican John McCain Without Help From A Seasoned Politician Willing To Attack." "The picks say something profound about Obama: For all his self-confidence, the 47-year-old Illinois senator worried that he couldn't beat Republican John McCain without help from a seasoned politician willing to attack. The Biden pick is the next logistical step in an Obama campaign that has become more negative -- a strategic decision that may be necessary but threatens to run counter to his image." (Ron Fournier, "Analysis: Biden Pick Shows Lack Of Confidence," The Associated Press, 8/23/08)
Fournier: "A senior Obama adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said his boss has expressed impatience with what he calls a 'reverence' inside his campaign for his message of change and new politics. In other words, Obama is willing -- even eager -- to risk what got him this far if it gets him to the White House." (Ron Fournier, "Analysis: Biden Pick Shows Lack Of Confidence," The Associated Press, 8/23/08)
Time Magazine: "It's a measure of how badly the last month has gone for the once high-flying Obama campaign that they're willing to risk taking on board a shoot-from-the-lip running mate like Biden." (Massimo Calabresi, "Behind Obama's Bet on Biden," Time Magazine, 8/23/08)
The New York Times: "Mr. Obama's choice of Mr. Biden suggested some of the weaknesses the Obama campaign is trying to address at a time when national polls suggest that his race with Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, is tightening." (Adam Nagourney and Jeff Zeleny, "Obama Chooses Biden as Running Mate," New York Times, 8/23/08)
The Washington Post: "As the Associated Press's Ron Fournier noted in an analysis this morning, picking Biden shows that Obama and his team are concerned that questions of whether the Illinois senator is ready for the job have the potential to be politically dangerous." (Chris Cillizza, "Analysis: What Biden's Pick Means," Washington Post's "The Fix" Blog, 8/23/08)
Off-Message:
Time's Mark Halperin: "[O]ne quality that has afflicted Biden for as long as anyone can remember: a persistent tendency to say silly, offensive, and off-putting things." (Mark Halperin, "Halperin On Biden: The Pros And The Cons," Time, 8/23/08)
Time's Mark Halperin: "The central mystery for those who have watched Biden over the years is this: how could someone so smart, experienced, and articulate be his own worst enemy by saying just the wrong thing at just the wrong moment?" (Mark Halperin, "Halperin On Biden: The Pros And The Cons," Time, 8/23/08)
The Christian Broadcasting Network's David Brody: "Biden's Good For A Good, Let's Call It Five Gaffes Before November 4th If It's Biden Here We Go Again." "I mean if the Obama campaign, when they knew this pick was coming, they realized, Biden's good for a good, let's call it five gaffes before November 4th. They know this. They understand this. They're willing to take that risk, if it's Biden here we go again." (CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," 8/22/08)
CNN's Jessica Yellin: "The big other problem is that Biden has had a tendency to make gaffes on the trail, he's not always very disciplined." (CNN's "CNN Saturday Morning News," 8/23/08)
Newsweek's Howard Fineman: "He can't keep his mouth shut. Sometimes he talks before thinking. He is not always a systematic thinker. He loves to hear himself talk. He can get carried away with his enthusiasms." (Howard Fineman, "No Ordinary Joe: The Politics Of The Veep Pick--And What He Brings To The Party," Newsweek, 8/23/08)
[New York] Daily News: Biden "Veers Wildly Off Message." "But he can also be a motormouth who veers wildly off message. Even he admits to his tendency to 'bloviate.'" (Michael Saul, "Foreign policy? Joe Biden's no schmo," New York Daily News, 8/23/08)
Politico: "But while Biden, 65, made strides during the primary season on curbing his legendary penchant for leaving no thought unspoken, those who have watched him -- and listened to him -- over the years know the Obama team will spend some sleepless nights wondering what he might say at any given moment." (Carrie Budoff Brown and Bill Nichols, "The Ticket: Obama-Biden," Politico, 8/23/08)
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
LOL
You copied this
right off of JohnMcCain.com! Come on, you can do better than this!
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
Red_Wing is the Gateway to Right_Wing Talking Points Memo
He is a busy man, copying and pasting McCain's missive all over the internets.
Don't you earn a free trip to Iraq for that?
It is the economy, stupid.
Depends on how many points you earn
You can cash in early for the Club for Growth coffee mug or the Heritage Foundation mousepad, but the real achievers can earn much more valuable prizes. I hear that a plate at a special luncheon with Dick Cheney is up for grabs.
It's exciting times to be a young motivated Republican operative!
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
Hey Shymutt, you're coming around! ;-) n/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
I wonder how many points it takes for a trip to Hawaii?
I bet he's half way there already.
I'll never get to you level though...
...and receive the most coveted of liberal prizes, your own pair of DNC blinders!
Keep wearing them baby, come on all together now, a one, a two, a one two three ...Biden was a good choice....Obama is qualified to be POTUS....we are in a united party..."
LOL!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Just curious
The way you relish satanic ritual demonization, do you own a "Get Out of Hell Free" card?
It is the economy, stupid.
I have a great idea...
...for your signature line.
Simply remove the;
"It is the economy,"
...and it would suit you perfectly!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
See
here
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I know I'm not around much
at the moment, so perhaps I'm missing something here, but it seems to me the friendly back-and-forth can sometimes get a little sharper than it ought to.
Let's *all* try to remember that just because someone is wrong is no reason to criticize them as a person, rather than comment on their post =)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I try
I try to keep everyone in line
the best I can in the mods absence (since I'm half-a-mod or open thread geek or whatever my official title is), but they don't always listen to me either. ;-)
The most important thing to remember is that ideas are stupid or insane, not people. :-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
You know Stinerman...
...that is so unfair of you to use me as your example when there are half a dozen posts, and the very ones that initiate things to begin with, by her.
So listen man, if your gonna stick up for yourself, and try to establish that you're this upstanding guy, in hopes that you too will someday be bestowed the rare permissions to fly with eagles and become a moderator here, at a minimum show the basic principle moderators must possess, equanimity.
Pretty lame bro?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
No insult was intended
I just looked for an example.
My apologies if I offended you.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Fly With Eagles? (!)
Stiney is already a moderator here.
Not sure if that's considered soaring with eagles, although as far as teeny tiny blogs go this one is pretty classy! He isn't sticking up for himself, but for a kinder gentler partisanship.
(by her) your response (whacked out) was to kindness, who is a (him)
(by her) missliberties that troublemaker/ I'll take free speech for $500.
Copying and pasting 2 dozen MSM pieces as a purely partisan excercise (look libtards "gotcha") and then asking for a specific response ..... what's up with that..... you want a thesis paper? That's lame, especially since from your history you would ignore any reasoned response.
It is the economy, stupid.
Half moderator
And open thread monkey (until someone puts me on the moderator page).
Either way, we've wandered off-topic. Time to drop the thread.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
I believe that Ender
is on board with overhauling the site sometime late September or early October.
We'll update a lot of things at that point, and maybe have a "relaunch" to get some publicity.
As far as I'm concerned you're more than welcome to try to keep the peace here... it's a thankless job! I don't know if you have code permissions to ban people but I'd prefer any steps beyond warnings (such as suspensions or bannings) be discussed first with all moderators, that's what I try to do myself. Not that we really need to resort to that level of enforcement very often.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
No
I don't have full permissions. Just front page stuff and a few others (like the ultra secret page that the proles can't see). I can't even edit/delete comments (but can edit/delete diaries).
Don't be afraid to ask for help with any duties. I tend to be a bit OCD so some little things stick out like a sore thumb to me (like the ©2007 Swords Crossed at the bottom of the page)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
I don't think I can change that either
Hang on, let me see if there's a way for me to edit the front page content...
And while I'm in there I can give you permission to edit/delete comments, I think.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I think I changed the settings
so that an "Editor" can now edit comments.
But maybe not. Can you? If not, can you after you log out and then log back in? If not, I'll try again later...
(I'll also ask Ender about the header and footer blocks, I still don't see a way for me to modify them.)
Edit: Yes, now I can edit comments. -- stinerman
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I've been watching the exchange
Frankly, while the tone and words have been very borderline, I thought it was best to just let it go....mainly to avoid these tangent exchanges about the exchanges.
It's hard to intervene without one person feeling that they are unfairly being cited. And I think that applies here too.
Red Wing is still, IMO, learning the levels of seriousness and precision to expect from certain people. It may not meet his expectations and he needs to learn how things are so as to not set himself up for disappointment.
OTOH, MissL and others are also reacting to his very confrontational and predictably partisan tone....which she doesn't care for.
I simply hope that, with time, both sides start to acquire a sense of what they are doing to incite the other and make good-hearted effort to avoid it. I think it's the best way to handle it.
Outside of vulgarity, I think it's best to stick to grays and avoid B&W as much as possible.
I figured as much
You've always struck me as a non-interventionist. :-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Restraint has its advantages. ;)
Preemption in human relations on this level here can have ugly side effects.
That reminds me
You should read Ron Paul's The Revolution: A Manifesto. I'm about done and I'm pleasantly surprised. Of course, there are a few nits I like to pick, but on the whole it's a nice book.
If I have the time I'll diary it.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Didn't read it. Don't plan to.
But that's just me. I can pretty much guess what's in it...both in terms of what I would agree with and would not.
Besides, I've kinda grown out of the habit of reading stuff with themes that would generally reinforce what I already think.
Ron Paul's kind of an open book to me already...for better or worse. But it's generally more positive than not.
Is this site inching towards a big government...
...democrat kind of "we can think for you better than you can" sort of moderation policy? LOL! ;-)
I would hope, because of the occasional loose nut like
Miss Lmyself, that those that would do so remain restrained.P.S. -
I appreciate your comments above directed towards me, and suspect in large part they are accurate.
Where are Ender, Birddog, etc., anyway?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
This site does, in fact, lean toward
big government Democratic politics so it's simply a natural extension of that POV. ;)
But I don't look at a penchant for necessarily channeling one's views through bold, top-down government planning as a character flaw or a sign of malice. That said, it can at times be, IMO, for a lack of imagination and perspective when considering the human social story.
For my part, I try to infuse that overlooked "liberal" perspective (as opposed to statist) into the discussion. I'm not interested in changing views or tastes nor am I trying to. That said, I do try to inject that certain liberal "something" that can, at times, lack consideration when discussing the issues.
Sometimes, Conservatives do it all their own. Other times, Modern Liberals, do it all on their own. Yet other times, it's missing entirely...even if I happen to agree with the policy position of one side in said matter.
Nonetheless, if my contributions get people to reconsider their methods or hesitate in their answer by reflecting a bit differently on context via the underlying circumstances of an issue (thinking backward) or possible unintended consequences of an action (think forward) and thus nets a more cautious and skeptical approach in whatever policy, then I've done all I can expect to.
But we're not here to fight...lest we turn into myopic politicians.
Besides,
what sets off a lot of primordial, low grade clap trap is sensationalistic tone that seeks to make too much of things that, quite frankly, DO NOT MATTER. They are MADE TO MATTER to forward some predetermined agenda.
Heated, heart-felt discussions about praising or slamming politicians that amount to nothing more than reinforcing the fact that one prefers one party strike me as a waste of time.
ha
Heated, heart-felt discussions about praising or slamming politicians that amount to nothing more than reinforcing the fact that one prefers one party strike me as a waste of time.
I don't know if you noticed but that's pretty much how politics on the internet is played (and yes it's a waste of time). Except sometimes here, of course =)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Yes. I know
Some places are better than others.
If you, for example, at Economists View
, a liberal economic issues blog,