Wednesday Open Thread
The Polish government has agreed to let the US place part of the missile defense system in their country. Obviously Russia isn't too excited about the deal and has said that they will be aiming their missiles at Poland, but one thing can be guaranteed after the system is implemented: no one will ever forget Poland again.
More bombings in Algeria have killed at least 11. This time the bombings were in the city of Bouira. While the bombings seem to be tied to Al Qaeda, they have not claimed responsibility.
Submitted by stinerman on Wed, 2008-08-20 06:30
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In case you didn't see it yesterday
Ballot Access News is reporting that the Independent Party of Virginia has gathered 70,000 signatures for a Bloomberg/Paul ticket favicon. Virginia law allows for any petitioner to put anyone on the ballot, but then gives the candidates a chance to withdraw. So far, both Bloomberg and Paul have put out statements suggesting that they will not withdraw on the Virginia ballot. This could be a huge development since Virginia is a swing state this year.
Interesting...
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Polish Missile Crisis...over 10 defensive missiles?
Call me crazy
, but Russia surely has more than 10 extra ICBMs to offset the 10 anti-ballistic-missiles the USA is sending to Poland.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Symbolic
We need Russia as a business partner and an ally, like it or not.
Signing this deal at this time was imho a stupid move that could have waited until things calmed down a bit. It almost guarantees a reaction, that will require a counter reaction. This significance is an arms build-up tit for tat. It seems the war in the middle east is broadening.
It is the economy, stupid.
The only trouble is though, missliberties is that
we, the United States, ultimately destroyed Russia (i. e. the former Soviet Union (U.S. S. R.), and made it into a third-world country. This was brought about by (former) President G. H. W. Bush Sr., in his New World Order
(which, imo, is really the New World Disorder). The Russians did far better under Communism, and, yes, it's true that Ronald Reagan signed a peace treaty with Russia whlle in power, but who knows what will come about.
Really........?
I suppose that is why Russia was able to essentially invade at will the country of Georgia, because they are so weak????
I suppose that is why the US has been pussyfooting around with 'tough talk' and little action.
I am not defending Russia's actions, nor Georgia's nor the US. It would be wise to let everyone calm down a bit.
What worries me is this macho standoff, my weapon is so much bigger than yours, said Putin to Bush.
How unpleasant to have an arms buildup, the worst possible outcome of all this hubris. Exactly what a President McCain would relish for the sake of a War with Russia to defend and honor the Georgians, which in my view means WWlll.
It is the economy, stupid.
And why are we setting up a missile defense in Poland?
Is the official line having to do with Iran or North Korea? Cute. Real cute. Meanwhile, our government pretends that Russia is simply being irrationally paranoid when it sees the US arming its former satellites that happen to not like Russia very much.
Good signals, guys. Good signals.
whatever....
Our missles in Poland is the same as USSR's in Cuba in the 60's.
Those who support placing missiles on Russia's doorstep get all kerfluffled and don't understand why some of us think it's a crappy idea.
& McCain wants to bring Georgia into NATO w/ the prospect of putting more missiles there.
Would any of those who support missiles in Poland be willing to allow missiles in Cuba? No, they would not. Neocon's reasons previously has been that the US is the baddest nation on earth and no one could stop us. Word to those neocons....Russia called our bluff in Georgia. They showed the world the US isn't as bad as we say we are. Don't start WW III on my account because of your egos.
Richard Dean Anderson
MacGyver
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
I'm a SciFi geek so I preferred SG-1.
He played the characters the same though.
Move over O'Reilley
Rachel Maddow to get her own show
on MSNBC starting 9/8
Hmmm. In one sense, it's nice to see an overt liberal pundit getting her own news and opinion show. I just hope she doesn't use it to be like a liberal Hannity or O'Reilly.
Good luck to her.
MSNBC Certainly Needs It....
...Overall Cable Ratings
;
FNC 2nd, CNN 17th & MSNBC... 27th!
Tells ya a little something....
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
So perhaps they're trying to differentiate themselves
discussions about liberal media aside, overtly biased liberal pundit style news and opinions shows are severely lacking on TV.
Fox has two overtly conservative news and opinion shows on prime time with O'Reilly and Hannity. CNN has a populist, xenophobic, ol' fashioned conservative show in Dobbs. MSNBC used to have one with Scarborough. The rest is either bland, mainly news or reporting shows (like 360). But an unabashedly liberal opinion show? Not a one. Though some would argue that Olbermann has become one.
Maybe there's a reason the shows don't fly...
...On radio it has be abysmal. Franken, Cuomo, Air America, RFK Jr, with the exception of say a Jim Hightower, they all are failures.
As for TV, "The View" has their one little Conservative they occasionally let speak, Rosie, Tyra, Springer, Donahue's MSNBC show died quickly, many other liberal TV shows abound, just disguised as something else...sound familiar?
There is always Bill Maher....
Why do they all fail?
Why is FNC #1?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
They're all too busy
Liberals are too busy watching PBS. :-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
;-) ....n/t
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Tells ya nothing
Other than the fact that millions of Americans are stupid.
MSNBC could start a show called "Britney Goes Commando" and show pictures every week of Britney Spears with no underwear and the ratings would be in the stratosphere.
Newspapers that are laying off hundreds of people could start running photos of topless women every day and circulation would double.
Fox could start telling the truth and its ratings would plummet.
qui tacet consentire
It is statements like the one....
....you've posted above that make people think all liberals are ignorant, inarticulate zealots, that have nothing to say worth listening too.
"Millions of Americans are stupid"...Bonehead!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Ratings don't mean much
I won't go as far as our friend quaoar, but the ratings of a show have very little to do with anything other than popularity.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
What does that mean?
That's the whole point, the fact of the matter is people watch what they feel represents there views. If twice as many people are watching one show over the other, that means something Stinerman.
Just as liberals are unable to keep an audience on radio means something too.
Liberals rule the cities. But this is a big country full of people who believe in those traditional American values you have so much trouble getting a handle on, and you will be finding that out here in 83 days or so... ;-)
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Groupthink and jumping to conclusions
Rather they watch/listen to whatever reinforces their views. If I believe Barack Obama is a Muslim terrorist sympathizer, I have many outlets who will say just that. This leads to serious errors in judgment due to groupthink.
You can't use the fact that conservative talk radio and Fox News have better ratings than their "liberal" counterparts to make the case that there are more conservatives than liberals in the country or even that the country tends to have more conservative values. Perhaps liberals are less likely to watch television or listen to the radio. Perhaps liberals just aren't as engaging in the media. There are quite a few reasons to account for the disparity, none of which have anything to do with the reasons you imply exist.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
You are reaching...
...Your premise implys liberals are somehow "different" than conservatives?
We are all humans in the same environment, this is one you are not making sense on?
Fox does not say anything more conservative, than MSNBC says liberal, quantitatively speaking.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Can the left ever accept pearls of wisdom given from the right?
Don't know. Can the right ever accept pearls of wisdom from the left?
" We are reminded of how brilliant Republican Richard Nixon was in rejecting the neoconservative addiction to the Cold War
that McCain embraces when the late president traveled to Beijing to make peace with the bloodiest communist dictator of all. It turns out that the various communist movements were nationalist above all else, and when we "lost" in Vietnam, the result was not attacks on the United States but a war between China and Vietnam.
The lesson McCain should have learned is that the world is a complex place, today's enemies may be tomorrow's negotiating partners - as Obama has at times dared to suggest - and that the neoconservative view of a Pax Americana is a dangerous fantasy. And a costly one at that - not only in lost lives and blowback from the regions we destabilize, but also in the dollars that American taxpayers must waste.
Thanks to the absurdly misdirected war on terrorism that McCain so enthusiastically supports, we spend more annually in inflation-adjusted dollars on the military than in any time since WWII, even more than during the Korean and Vietnam wars. Vote for McCain and forget about funding to solve the Social Security, Medicare and subprime mortgage disasters or anything else that truly would make America stronger. "
Again, I don't know. I doubt it though.
I would hope we could take from the best of both.
But when I read stuff like the above I see why we never will.
Boy, it's just odd you would go to the Nixon administration as an example of successful Republican foreign policy? Not that Kissinger and the boys weren't fun to watch, but his visits to both the Soviet Union and China were nothing more than Presidential fodder in the end analysis. Nothing was gained and in fact we were played like fools during those years by the communists.
Reagan had the most successful foreign policy with them of any leader in history, but no mention of him in your ideology driven revisionist history.
The war on terrorism has arguably been the one thing that saved your a** the last seven years, you pointed out Nixon, who administered a war we lost 58K lives fighting and lost the war, and here we are in a war that is 5 years old we have lost 4k soldiers, for the most part that has ended, and we are about to win this war.
And as far as your "the sky is falling" routine if you vote for McCain, well that is like a sunny day in the park compared to what our country will look like if BO slithers into office!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Careful, RW
"Arguably" is the operative word here. Besides, the number of American lives lost isn't necessarily the gauge of success.
There are many activities going on to combat terrorism...some useful, some counterproductive or at best ineffectual. To look at all of them together and claim success is too simplistic.
As for Nixon, well, I'll just say that he didn't the start the war and was elected with the hopes of ending it.
Bush and Cheney saved my ass?
Wow. I didn't realize they considered my ass so valuable.
If I ever get to meet them I'll have to remember to bend over, because I'm sure they'll want to kiss it.
qui tacet consentire
Beautiful prose (!)
Ha!
It is the economy, stupid.
Make jokes all you like...
...it's a liberal way of coping. Ostriches stick their heads in the sand, possums play dead, and liberals relish hyperbole!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Ann Coulter must be a liberal then, she uses hyperboles to death
n/t
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Oh look the unbiased MSM has....
Put BO on the cover of Time Magazine
....
...again....
...for the 7th time....
...in a year!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
enlighten me oh wise red_wing
as to the conservative way of coping? Patriot Games? Lifting weights? Using the Weekly Standard for an umbrella in Florida? Target Practice?
Kindling, stakes and ritual fires, ala the Salem Witch Hunts? <<<----- that is my joking way of coping with your ridiculous statement that humor is bad liberal vodoo.
With your citation of possums, and ostriches, sand and dying, I'd say you have a flair for hyperbole yourself.
But I like hyperbole. Especially in dealing with hard core righties, since facts never seem to penetrate into their brains, it is important to hit em in the gut. It's the only thing that seems to hold their short attention spans for more than 2 minutes. <<<<<<------ more bad liberal voodoo humor.
<<<<------><----->It is the economy, stupid.
Ya you got it right there Miss L....
...Us conservatives are just clinging to our guns and hating folks that don't look like we do!
Geeeeze?
You are one who should be careful about referring to having an ability to deal with facts deary! ;-)
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Arguably? Hardly. This Administration has bungled the world
on every level so badly that I am ecstatic that there haven't been more attacks, but I won't credit bush43 for that.
And where it counts, where the Administration had the opportunity to change peoples minds following 9/11attacks, they played right into bin Laden's hand. bush43 did exactly what the people that attacked us wanted to happen. They came down hard on Islam creating animosity in the Islamic World which already didn't really trust us. They crack down hard on their own citizens rights and freedoms "so as to protect us" from these dangerous people.
Those dangerous people were a very small bunch of ideologues who were able to get away with 9/11 because no one ever imagined anyone would actually do that with an airplane. Well, except maybe the August 6, 2001, President's Daily Briefing Memo
which was titled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike in U.S." and described exactly the scenerio that happened on 9/11. What was dubya's response to the Duty Officer who brought him the memo? he said:
"OK, now you've covered your ass, now get out of here."
And McCain wants more of the same.
Scared of the Human Bomb?
Flying planes into things
isn't anything new, even the United States tried using manned planes as missiles
.
It wasn't all the unforeseeable that someone would combine suicide attacks and hijacking.
And Usama bin Laden was upset that the United States had troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, because Saudi Arabia contains some sites holy to Islam [even though the US was on the other side of the country.] And now the US has "liberated" a Muslim country and has US troops stationed there, with
permanentlong term bases in a Muslim country right next door to Saudi Arabia.In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
So you agree the Administration was completely inept and
has handed bin Laden a huge victory? That's what it sounds like to me.
Surrounding Iran doesn't give Iran warm and fuzzy fealings.
If George W Bush mainly attacked Iraq because Bush thought that a secular dictator would give WMD to a far-right-wing religious terrorist group [to act as a proxy to attack the West], and felt that strongly enough to risk making Iran more paranoid and surrounded from two sides. And at the same time not realize that al Qeada has interjected themselves into previous Muslim related civil strifes and GWB still thought the war would be relatively quick and easy, then calling GWB inept would be appropriate.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
OK. We agree he's inept.
He never should have changed the focus so as to attack Iraq. They KNEW Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but they told their surrogates to find the link. They made it all up and invaded because it was a better prize than where the real fight was.
Now we have Pakistan as the real problem and these same people (both in & out of the Administration) only want to attack Iran. What is it? Do some folks insist on refusing to learn hard lessons?
Get with it. The ball isn't in Iran or Iraq, but Iraq is where our Armed Forces are bogged down.
And McCain want's more of the same.
Ohio Representative and Democratic Superdelegate dies
"Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones died Wednesday in an Ohio hospital after suffering an aneurysm a day earlier."
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Not Dead!
Now she is in "critical condition."
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678
Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
Hope she can make it
I hope she pulls through.
Tubbs Jones represents the Eastern side of Cleveland in a "Voting Rights Act" district.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
She has passed
May she Rest in Peace
It is the economy, stupid.
She was a classy lady...
...she always seemed to have a smile on her face, and had something decent to add to the dialog.
Her passing is a big loss to the American political scene...
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman