Monday Open Thread
Good morning guys. Georgia, Russia battle as envoy seeks peace - looks like the Russian power play and land grab is proceeding with the pleasant shock and awe offensive. Others are told to shut up and mind their business or else.
Are you watching the Olympics?
Submitted by Ender on Mon, 2008-08-11 09:20
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File this under wtf
I was going to quote from this
story, but I just don't know where to start.
What a strange world we live in!
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I like the last quote about her being ugly as sin now... heh n/t
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Heres the start..."She's ugly as sin now,"
No pun intended
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Yeah that's odd
My favorite odd news stories are still
1) Robot Camel Jockeys in Qatar
2) French separatists steal large rock from yodelling Swiss weightlifters...twice
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Nice
I wish the camel jockeys CNN story was still online.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
There's a wired link that works
go to the GNN post and it's at the bottom, i just checked and it's still good.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Oh, thanks
That's a very interesting story, actually.
Closes on kind of a down note. Wonder what happened to those kids...
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I have several views of the S. Ossetia/Russia/Georgia
conflict. I am disappointed but not surprised that The Media has portrayed it the way it has.
The state South Ossetia
declared itself independent from Georgia in the early 90's. There were two votes for independence which both won hugely. The last one in 2006 where 98% agreed on independence. It's people are majority non-georgian and there apparently has been some ethnic cleansing on both sides.
Do I think Russia is just offering up Brotherly Love & assistance? Hell no! They want to stick it to Georgia any way they can. They need a quick little war for their own press back in Moscow as well.
John McCain want's to take us to WW III over this (thems some real good CinC judgment calls, eh?) The Media, being the Media, spins it wildly. The regular goons are saying how this is magnificent for John McCain and the hard right (which still loves to bash them some Russia. Funny how those folks need a pinyata to take swings at and feel good about themselves) and Obama loses no matter what.
Even more disgusting is they are now trumpeting a Drudge headline which hasn't even been verified that Russia tried to bomb a gas pipeline through Georgia. They know where their bread is buttered. The Media....they loves them some oil and they loves them some wars. More oil and more wars as far as their ratings are concerned and the consequences to the rest of the world be damned!
sick buttheads. As if we need another oil war going on in the world right now.
Me...I guess I think that they should let the state secede but not allow Russia to get any more of Georgia. But that's just one liberal's view.
Generally agreed
I support any region that wants independence if a supermajority of such people want independence.
That being said, I have no clue why Russia is involved. Georgia should be out of South Ossetia ... and so should Russia (unless the South Ossetians want to be part of Russia).
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
SO, do you think the American south should have...
...been permitted to secede, without fighting Lincoln's war for it?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
In deference to Purpleface
I'll refrain from answering :)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Huh?
Please explain?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Northern Allies of Southern Succession
I believe he's stating our mutual opinion that the rest of the country would be better off without the former Confederate states as part of the union.
The Confederates illegally appropriated federal property. For that reason, Lincoln had a good reason to invade. Had the South paid for that property under the standards at the time, there would have been no good reason to invade. Ron Paul's idea of buying the slaves under eminent domain and then freeing them would have been a better way to handle the problem.
For that matter, the civil rights legislation could have been handled better. The simple enforcement of clause 2 of the 14th Amendment would have stopped poll taxes and literacy tests in their tracks. If not, simply withholding any federal funds from any states which allowed discrimination in places of public accommodation could be the 2nd step.
States should have the right to withdraw from the US based on a plebiscite. I'd demand a 66% majority with at least 50% voter turnout for it to count in the affirmative.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Pretty much what stinerman said
I harp on the south a lot and sometimes it rankles PF (who I believe lives in Texas).
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Not the answer I anticipated
Sounds good, Thanks!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
But Russia wants an unconditional surrender
Russia has been trying to "influence" countries in their for some time now.
In this recent conflict, reports have came out that Georgia has "intentionally" targeted civilians have came out [all those reports seem to be from Russian officials oddly] . Now Russia is in Georgia proper and running amok [according to Georgian sources]
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080811222408.40e5p19r&show_artic...
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Not as of 7:40 est this morning (8/12) as per the AP.
Russia orders halt to military action in Georgia
.
Did you hear Cokie Roberts on Obama going to Hawaii?
She said:
"does not make any sense whatsoever. I know his grandmother lives in Hawaii and I know Hawaii is a state, but it has the look of him going off to some sort of foreign, exotic place."
To which Hunter replies:
"Let's review. Obama grew up in Hawaii, as we have been reminded countless times. His grandmother lives there. He's going on vacation and visiting his grandmother. In the process, he's visiting his 48th state of this campaign season, and rumors abound he's going to try to visit all 50, the first candidate to try to do so since Nixon.
According to Cokie Roberts, though, it conjures images of the foreign and exotic. He'll, he's pretty damn presumptuous. Hawaii!! Why doesn't he vacation in some God-fearing, non-foreign place? We have beaches near Washington! And grandmothers!"
I used to think Cokie was a moderate voice but that was back in the 80's. Now, she sells herself as being a moderate, but she's just another Democrat hatin' republithug.
She's wrong, but has a point
I see what she's getting at.
I'm your standard uncultured, white trash Midwesterner. It wasn't until I was about 9 or 10 until I left my home state. I've never lived anywhere but Ohio. I've never been any further west than Indiana. I've never been on an airplane. I don't have a passport, so obviously I've never been to another country (and Canada is an hour ferry ride across the Lake).
The idea that going to Hawaii is incredibly exotic to people like me. People in my family who never had the money to go on such vacations would say "Hmm, MUST BE NICE!" to such news. There are a lot of working-class people who never have the chance to do anything like this. My ex talks about family she has in Florida. They're pretty close on the family tree, she's met them maybe once or twice. Why? They live in Florida. That's too expensive to drive or fly back home, so the only option is that she never sees that part of her family.
Many Americans inhabit completely different worlds than the rest of their peers. And I'm not talking about the difference between the homeless and Warren Buffet. I'm talking about the difference between the kid on TANF and the kid who goes to a private school.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
I can sympathize
I think calling Hawaii "elitist" is a bit of a stretch but I can totally understand never having gotten the chance to travel and seeing that as at least a luxury.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Stinerman, you should travel some
Take a road trip and see the country. I know you don't have much money, but seriously, make it a goal to save up like $1500 by next summer (mainly for gas, which is expensive), buy a tent for $40 and use campgrounds to save $, and take a few weeks and see the country. You will not regret it!
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
One day
Right now I need the job for the money. :-)
There is a good lead in Akron and another possibility in Columbus (I can bother GoRight if he's still in the area -- and maybe you if you live there). I'm cautiously optimistic.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
If you are interested in moving out this way
and if you don't mind sharing info about what you do or are looking for, I can keep an eye/ear out...
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Thanks for the offer
I can't afford to move anywhere without a job offer in writing and no one will give that to me due to my age and relatively light formal experience in the fields I'm interested in. The fact that I still live where I do is because of my ex's goodwill (yes, Brutus, Lindsay and I broke up ... but you probably figured that out last time you were over).
I'm mostly a computer tech geek. I've been interested in doing work as a technical writer as well. I've got a degree in Math, so I can do anything math related, too. Lately, I've been doing a bit better on getting interviews and such, and I've got some hope for a few places.
I'm not so hard up just yet. Things are looking good.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Alrighty
if you change your mind and want me to look around a bit here then send me a note (tlaloc.raingod [at] gmail)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Why the fearfull reaction?
It wasn't that bad after all?
Now anyone who even comments on how they feel about how he appears on vacation in Hawaii, is a thug?
Come now?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
A lot of interesting stuff
but my boss is out this week leaving me with a lot more to do. My kids leave friday too.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Divorced?
Weekend with my dad was always a treat. In fact, that's why I moved to live with him in 7th grade.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Yeah
My first wife and I separated amiciably back in 2002. We have two kids. For the last few years they've been in Germany (she married a guy who went into the militray, actually he was one of my best friends...the divorce was amiciable but the immediate after divorce period got kind of rocky). The long distance made visits stressful for the kids. Now they're back in the states (DC, still too far for my tastes but a lot closer). We just finished up a long 8 week visit.
I've actually been thinking recently of looking at some jobs my company has in China, the main argument against is how hard that'd be on the kids to travel across the world for visits again.
Probably more info than you really were looking for... :)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Wow man, that must be tough...
...not seeing you children on a regular basis!
I have 3 boys and just can't imagine.
But I guess in the world we live in you do what you have to do?
Sincerely, ~ RW.
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
I used to have them every weekend
It was nice to be so much a part of their lives but it was also hard because I pretty much never got a break. It wouldn't be as bad now that they are a little older and can take care of most of their immediate needs (they are 8 and 10 this year).
My hope is that they move back to this area once he's out of the military and we can go to a week on week off kind of schedule.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
I hope it works out that way!
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Not at all
I'm always interested in hearing whatever the SC crowd has to say about...anything.
Being a child of divorced parents, I have to say we tend to adapt pretty well to the whole situation. People always say "oh, that must be so tough". Well, not really because it's all we've ever known (at least for me; I don't recall my parents being together).
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
My parents divorced when I was 2
but the bad part was that they had a very bitter divorce. I knew I had to avoid that if at all possible so I've tried really hard to keep things amiacable with the ex (and she's put in effort as well). The kids certainly endured some stress and uncertainty in going through the whole process but i don't think it severely scarred them or anything. They have two parents and two step parents now that reallly care for them.
But man there's always that taunting nagging doubt about if it was for the best and if they would have been better if you had stayed together. It's really hard sometimes. Mistakes I can acknoweldge and deal with but uncertainty is a killer for people like me.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
I loved that, didn't you?
Oh, the parents who don't like each other. How I loved that. Being used as a proxy messenger wasn't the best thing in the world.
Mom: "You tell your Dad he needs to do, X, Y, Z!"
Stinerman: "Dad, mom says you need to do X, Y, Z."
Dad: "You tell your Mom to mind her own business! I'll do A, B, C if I want!"
Stinerman: "Mom, dad says to mind your own business."
Mom: "Did he!? You tell him to ..."
Oh, now I'm getting nostalgic! *tear* :-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
You know your mom and dad _really_ hate each other
...when there are no messages at all, almost like the other parent didn't even exist :-p I have little nostalgia over that period in my life, it just flat out sucked :-(
If I knew then what I know now (that it was nothing for me to be personally ashamed of), I would have coped much better. But when you're 11, you don't know much.
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
Oh yeah
My older brother was pretty bitter over the divorce as well and i spent a good part of my early years playing family diplomat between the three. I'm actualy pretty good at it (what, you can't tell from my conciliatory manner here?).
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Probably depends on the divorce and the child
My parents divorced when I was 11 and it was the worst thing that ever happened to me. I did not adapt well at all and felt a lot of shame. I hid the divorce from my friends and actually avoided them because I didn't want anyone to find out that my mom had left. I ended up isolated and with few friends all the way through middle school and high school. I didn't really fully recover until I moved out like ten years later.
Looking back at it now, I think I understand why I took it so badly. For one thing, my mother left the family, and I think it was very tough on me as a male child nearing adolescence to be "abandoned" by my mother, who I had idealized. Also, being with my disciplinarian dad as a single parent through my teen years was really tough, especially since I think it took him a long time to recover from the divorce too; it is not easy living in a single parent home when the parent is depressed and angry.
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
SC: a support group for children of divorced parents
Yeah, I suppose it would matter based on the age, especially during the tween and teen years when you're starting to come together as a person.
I couldn't stand my stepfather, so I moved to live with my dad. I'm kinda lucky I had an out like that. Living there was hell as far as I was concerned. Most kids in my situation have a parent who doesn't care to see them.
C'est la vie.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
I guess it's part of why I'm repulsed by John Edwards
His smiling, self-righteous interview on Nightline gave me the creeps. Here's a man for whom it is still all about him and his fat ego. He doesn't care for his two young kids half as much as he thinks he does, to go out and have an affair and to expect his family to lie for him for months and years on end, they of course living with the shame of knowing the truth, which is hanging over all their heads like a guillotine. That's assuming he did tell them about the affair right after it happened, which could be a lie, since we obviously can't take anything these habitual liars say at face value.
There, I brought it back around to politics and away from the sad stories of our broken homes :-)
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
John Edwards repulses me
and I don't come from a broken home.
I feel the absolute worst for his kids.
Selfish ass.
It is the economy, stupid.
That's kind of harsh.
Lots of people make improper actions wrt sex. Edwards can still believe in and want all those swarmy things he says he does, and still be a knucklehead where his ego gets in the way of himself.
Compare him to McCain. McCain came back from being a POW, found a wife who was much older and less attractive than the one he married, and started having affairs right off the bat. His current wife was one of those affairs.
I think that Europeans have a much better way of dealing with sex and sexual (in)discretion than we do here in the states. By my logic, Clinton should never have faced the questions he did by Ken Starr.
Generally I agree
What goes on in the private life of public figures is none of my concern, but when it comes to marriage, that's a different story.
Marriage is essentially a promise to someone that you won't cheat on them (among other things)**. For some people it's a promise before their deity for others it's just a promise between those two people. It is the most important and unbreakable promise anyone can make.
Assuming that John Edwards did not have a prior agreement with his wife that he could have sexual relations with another person, he broke the most important promise anyone can ever make. In light of that, everything he says from here on out is suspect. His lie is what upsets me. I could care less if he was getting some action on the side.
**This refers to religious or spiritual marriage, not the state-sanctioned benefits. Too often we unintentionally equivocate when we're talking about marriage.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Why would that be
the most important promise anyone can ever make?
I'm asking seriously. I suspect that you feel that way as a function of our culture's hang ups about sex (the same reason we often treat rapists as worse than murderers).
I look at marriage as a partnership. I'm not with my wife because she's the only woman I'd ever want to touch, I could never get married if that was the requirement. Instead it is because I trust her, she's good to me, good to my kids, I respect her, I love her, she loves me. We have similar temperments and tastes in most cases. We communicate well. Neiuther of us has any vices that the other can't stand (she's not a heroin addict, I don't smoke or gamble away our budget).
Quite simply we work well together in emotional and practical senses. That's what I think matters. We share our lives because it makes each of them individually a little better. Sex is certainly part of that but I couldn't call it the most important part by any stretch of the imagination.
Put it this way- I could easily stay in our marriage if it were sex-less (and seek release with others), but even if she were the sex kitten of my wildest dreams I couldn't keep her around if she were cruel or even negligent towards my kids.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
It's not about sex
The act of marriage itself, regardless of what it implies sexually is of paramount importance to many people, and it certainly is to me.
It really isn't about the sex, but it is about not breaking any promises that are part of one's marriage. I don't know what your promises are regarding you and your wife's relationship. I assume that if your wife was abusive with your children, that would be grounds for a divorce. Part of the agreement that is marriage is an implicit assumption that she wouldn't be that way.
It seems that staying monogamous was important to the Edwards's, just as important as the respect/treatment of your children is in your relationship. If it wasn't, then this wouldn't have been as big of a deal.
Like I said, it isn't about him having sex with someone else that bothers me. It's that he broke his word to his wife -- part of which was an agreement to remain monogamous. If their marriage would have been based on eating macaroni & cheese every prime numbered day in odd numbered months and he broke it, I'd be just as upset.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Dude it's not about the sex
It's about reality that there is no way Republicans wouldn't snoop this out with their oppo research.
Did he and Elizabeth really think not one Republican would find out that he had a fling???
Then he consistently lied about it. In fact he is still lying.
There is a payola scandal in question here with campaign funds diverted as 'hush' money. Not cool. Especially when you are running for President as Mr. Apple Pie, the son of a mill worker.
He betrayed the trust of his supporters and democrats generally.
It is the economy, stupid.
Fox had this last November...
...but they, out of respect for Elizabeth Edwards, didn't publish it.
IT WASN"T THE REPUBLICANS that broke the story, it was the evil right wing paper, The National Equirer!
Why must everything be partisan with you?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Think, think, think......
If Edwards had won the nomination, do you really think Republicans would have let this little detail slip past them. Absolutely not. Hello.
It is the economy, stupid.
I didn't say that you don't consider that aspect of a person.
I think that side of Bill Clinton was abominable. But I don't think he should have been asked the questions Ken Starr asked him about his indiscretions. I also think McCain was completely wrong about how he treated his ex-wife and children, but I don't think it should be the paramount issue that one decides a political leader on.
Political leaders want to be like the ones in the movies. They do no wrong and lead their people on to glorious new times. But reality dictates we choose someone who actually lives among us, not a fictitious character.
I still like some of what Edwards spoke out for. That idea hasn't been besmirched because Edwards himself fooled around on his wife. It's the beliefs I support more than the person who promotes the beliefs.
Integrity and virtue do exist outside the movies...
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Keep in mind
that not everyone has a traditional monogamous relationship. My wife and I have an open realitionship for example. Of course I have no idea if Edwards does but it is certainly not impossible.
That said I've always found Edwards a little slimy too.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
oh my
That's unusual, especially if it works.
It is the economy, stupid.
When in Rome...
It's also incredibly hot.
Whenever I'm in Oregon, I'm going to stay at Tlaloc's! :-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Oh no you didn't!
I think this goes beyond the few standard amenities you can expect when you are a houseguest: we're talking about stuff like clean towels, a bowl of cereal in the morning, perhaps some fresh-squeezed orange juice if you're lucky...
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
Hot?
...to see Tlaloc getting it on with your old lady?
Yikes?
"A society that puts equality before freedom will have neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." ~ Milton Friedman
Negative
I was actually talking about me and Tlaloc's wife. It was obviously a joke**.
**A wise man once said that requests for sexual favors are always made in jest unless the other person agrees.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
The Endangered Species Act may soon be extinct.
Administration to relax protected species rules, cutting out independent reviews.
Darth Cheney doesn't need his Viagra when he's got this stuff going down the pipeline.