Monday Open Thread

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What is wrong with

stating the facts?

McCain ended his military career as a Captain. Clark ended his as a General.

I will go with Clark here.

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It is the economy, stupid.

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For some reason the Obama campaign

was kind enough to essentially renounce a slight that was never even given (by someone who supported his primary opponent) but which the McCain campaign conveniently perceived: Separately, in a statement, Obama spokesman Bill Burton said, "As he's said many times before, Senator Obama honors and respects Senator McCain's service, and of course he rejects yesterday's statement by General Clark."

Let's see McCain step up and say that of course he agrees with Clark that on-the-ground military service doesn't confer the strategic experience of C-in-C, and that he apologizes for his campaign spokesperson mischaracterizing Clark's innocuous statement and dishonestly attempting to portray it as an attack on McCain's service, and that he understands this has nothing to do with Obama but he appreciates the Obama campaign reiterating yet again their respect for his service, and that in the future his campaign will not try to hide behind his military record and manufactured outrage but will instead engage in issue-oriented debate and reply substantively and respectfully to legitimate criticism.

Let's see that.

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Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Apparently McCain goes nuclear

if you criticize his military service. But if you trash his family like Rove did in SC -- not a peep.

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qui tacet consentire

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I'm guessing

that if anyone remotely connected with Obama says anything negative about Cindy, he'll go plenty nuclear.

Didn't seem to bother him when Cindy went after Michelle Obama, of course. Laura Bush OTOH had the class to defend Michelle.

This is a different McCain from 2000, and he's running a different campaign. I'm disappointed.

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Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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I would say

that this is the real McCain, the one in 2000 was a fake.

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It is the economy, stupid.

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What is most bizarre

is reading headlines, like Clark touches third rail of politics, as if John Kerry's service was never 'brought up' . The hypocrisy is out of bounds.

Most disgusting is the way conservatives gleefully jump on board slamming and smearing ANY military officer who doesn't view the world through their pigeon hole.

Mention Wes Clark's name on a conservative site and a tirade will ensue. But please don't say anything about dear Johnny because "It's Always Okay IF You Are a Republican. It's two faced, disrespectful and disgusting.

Wes Clark was absolutely correct in his statement. 100%

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It is the economy, stupid.

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Yep (nt)

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Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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I think Cpl Pat Tillman should be President.

You may think it odd that I think a dead service member should be elected POTUS. But after this weekend's (and todays continuing) dust up about McCains credentials to be Commander in Chief, I find Cpl. Tillman much more qualified.

Apparently being shot down and spending 5 years as a POW is what many on the right feel is what makes a person qualified. And that is exactly my point. McCain is such a piker. Here's a guy who 40 years ago crashes his jet, gets jailed by Hanoi and he's therefore the pre-emminent candidate.

Tillman passed on an EXTREMELY lucrative football career (although not nearly as lucrative as dumping the mother of his three children in order to marry Cindy McCain) to join the US Armed Forces where he gave his all. Literally, he gave them everything he had to give including his life.

And McCain & his backers are screaming bloody murder because some limp wristed ex-General doesn't think being shot down is a good qualifying factor for becomming POTUS.

Well McCain & backers...don't look now but you've just helped create 4600 + individuals who are well more qualified than McCain. Hell, there are new emminently more qualified potential CiC's being helped to this lofty status every day, thanks of Darth, dubya and a Senate that refuses to tell Darth & dubya when they are lacking in the awareness/reality category. But at least in this respect, they share the same set of profoundly moronic values that those screaching about how horrible General Clark was. A match made in heaven for certain. But since that being the case, why are they pushing for so many more good servicemen & women to join the list?

Only heaven knows.

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Wow, way to double down

From the Bourbon room favicon (Fox News) via dKos, describing a McCain campaign conference call:

And in remarks sure to aggravate the situation, Swindle and Day both said Clark’s comments were way out of bounds but questions raised by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" during the 2004 campaign against John Kerry were not.

Day said the criticisms of Kerry’s war record were factual while Clark’s assessment of McCain was inaccurate.

Who is this Day gentleman, you ask? More:

Col. Bud Day, now on McCain's "Truth Squad" was a member of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that McCain attacked during the 2004 campaign for airing "dishonest and dishonorable" attacks against Kerry that amounted to a "cheap stunt."

As other money-watchers have also noticed, McCain accepted at least $61,000 in direct and bundled contributions this campaign from three top funders of the Swift Boat Veterans, among them Bob Perry, T. Boone Pickens and Harold Simmons.

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Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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That's pretty disgusting

McCain has jumped down into the sewer and is wallowing in the feces -- all while he sells his soul for a few campaign contributions from these sleaze merchants.

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qui tacet consentire

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Oops.... put this in Friday's open thread by mistake....

Funny stuff:

http://willdo.philadelphiaweekly.com/archives/2008/06/tyson_homosexua.ht...

The money quote:

After the race, Homosexual and Dix looked at each other and slapped palms, then hugged.

heehee

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“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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Funniest story I've read in weeks.

That absolutely made my day.

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Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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Fixed Clark quote

I was using the one from March; now replaced with the one from Sunday. They have IMHO essentially the same message, one of respect for McCain's service.

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Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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I just found out about this

I just found out about this thing. Just saw Clark interviewed on Dan Abrams show on MSNBC.

Brendan, I agree with you 100%. Good call, and excellent diary in terms of both topic and argument.

I still plan to vote for McCain (albeit not particularly enthusiastically -- he's a far cry from the man he was, or at least seemed to be, in 2000 when I was enthusiastic), but I have to acknowledge that you are completely right. The relevance of McCain's military service to the role of Commander in Chief is fair game, Clark's points were sensible, and his most contraversial line (which I assume has been jumped on and used out of context) was simply a direct (and sensible) answer to a direct (and somewhat stupid) question from the interviewer (Face the Nation's Bob Shieffer).

I think Obama's "rejection" of Clark's "statement" is disingenuous. I think Obama knows there is nothing in anything Clark said that warrants rejection. And (and this is the only thing in your diary with which I'd take issue -- so I guess I need to say I agree with you, say, 95%) I doubt the Obama campaign's statement was due to their being "kind enough". It was a political calculation, including the part in which they insincerely and unjustifiably threw Clark under the bus. There's a good chance it was coordinated with Clark and even that Clark was ok with it, but still, it's insincerity as a political tactic, and it feeds into this whole silly Jerry Springerization of political races. But this point is minor compared to your larger point, on which your are dead on correct, hence the 95% agreement.

There is a chance that I will end up staying home in November if McCain's policy positions and campaign tactics reach a point at which I just feel too disgusted to vote for him. (And voting for Obama is out, because I just don't think Obama is qualified for the office, nor do I agree with his Iraq position, nor the overall level of spending he'd bring)

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I'm gettin' the impression Obama hired Hillary's campaign

people. It's too safe.

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Safe, exactly

That's what I said in responding to B Rational here favicon. It comes across as wishy-washy.

For balance, however, here is another take favicon.

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Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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It's beyond wishy-washy,

It's beyond wishy-washy, it's insincere, and beyond just insincere, it's insincerely throwing an ally under the bus without any real cause.

Was there a longer statement from the Obama campagin with regard to Clark's "statement" (by which I assume they were referring to his answer to Schieffer's question -- correct?)? If so, anyone have a link handy?

I have no problem with Obama repeating his respect for McCain's military service, but as for Clark's statements, I would have respected a statement from the Obama campaign that (1) it is fair to ask to what extent and in what ways McCain's military experience qualifies him to be Commander in Chief, and (2) that particular statement (Clark's answer to Schieffer's question) is being taken misleadingly out of context to make it sound as if Clark was disparaging McCain's service, which the context (Clark's prior comments and the fact that Clark was then responding to directly to a direct question) shows is very far from the case.

I think the Obama campaign "rejecting" Clark's "statement" is quite lame. What exactly are they rejecting, given the question he was asked and given that he had already stated his respect for McCain's service in glowing terms?

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