Obama for Democratic nominee
First, I'm endorsing Obama for Democratic nominee, not president. I've already made my views clear on who I want for commander-in-chief. But before explaining further, I want to address the principles undergirding this choice. The fundamental question is this. Do we conservatives want the worst Democratic candidate to be nominated, thereby improving the GOP candidate's chances, or do we want the best Democratic candidate facing the best Republican candidate? I pick the latter. Why? Opinions will vary, but I believe that it's in our nation's best interest for the People to choose among two reasonably strong candidates. We have a two-party system and it works best when both parties and both sets of candidates are non-dysfunctional.
So why Obama over Hillary or Edwards? First, scratch Edwards. I can't stand his stupid "two Americas" schtick, and he isn't viable anyway. In his home state of South Carolina, Edwards is a distant third, going by the RCP average . In Florida, Edwards is even more pathetic
. He should give up the dream, drop out of the race and endorse Obama.
So that leaves Hillary and Obama. My decision for Obama isn't because of his positions on the issues. From what I can see, there isn't a lot of daylight between the two. They both want major government intervention in health care, they're wrongheaded on Iraq, they favor higher taxes and more government spending, they're pro Roe v. Wade, and they would appoint left-wing judges. Hillary may have fleshed out her issues a little better, but they're still liberal left-wing issues.
Obama gets the nod, for one, because he is a transcendant candidate. He is smart, he has a positive message and he is a less polarizing figure. If elected, there will be plenty of differences to hash out, but he appears to be a person whom Republicans could better work with.
The other reason I favor Obama is that I find Hillary Clinton and her political machine to be a detestable and diseased entity that has no business being near the White House. She is an unlikeable politician who uses slimeball tactics to get her way. If she is so willing to take the low road on the campaign trail against a fellow Democrat, there is plenty of reason to believe she would do the same against Republican opponents by orders of magnitude, and there is plenty of reason to believe she would do the same as president. I would rather not have another four or eight years of white-hot, gloves-off hyperpartisanship. We are a nation at war and we don't need that.
Back in 1992, Bill Clinton lied his way into the White House (remember him saying we had the worst economy in 50 years?), and when he was elected he applied the practice of dissembling, demagoguing and demonizing his opponents for political gain. In 1996 , when Bob Dole confronted Bill Clinton because of a dishonest attack, Clinton said that "you gotta do what you gotta do." Nothing has changed in 2008, and the same players are still in play. It is clear to me that Slick Willie and Slick Hillie will say or do whatever they can get away with.
This was exemplified last week in the South Carolina debate when Hillary said that Obama "really liked the ideas of the Republicans." Factcheck.org was being nice by saying the claim was false. Either Hillary has a major reading comprehension problem or she lied, and I don't believe got as far as she did in her career by misreading transcripts. That lie was amplified when the Clinton team aired a radio ad in South Carolina implying that Obama favored Republican ideas. Thankfully, enough Democrats were offended
by it that the Machine pulled the ads, but Hillary's advisers want the negative campaign to continue
:
Advisers to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton say they have concluded that Bill Clinton’s aggressive politicking against Senator Barack Obama is resonating with voters, and they intend to keep him on the campaign trail in a major role after the South Carolina primary.
The benefits of having Mr. Clinton challenge Mr. Obama so forcefully, over Iraq and Mr. Obama’s record and statements, they say, are worth the trade-offs of potentially overshadowing Mrs. Clinton at times, undermining his reputation as a statesman and raising the question among voters about whether they are putting him in the White House as much as her.
Yet here is Hillary on the Today Show dishonestly saying she's just counterpunching. Was raising Obama's past cocaine use a "counterpunch"? Were those robo-calls in Nevada about Barack Hussein Obama a "counterpunch"? Democrats--actually all of us--don't deserve this tripe.
Why else would I endorse a candidate on the other side? Because as they say in war, the enemy gets a vote, and I think it's important for Republicans to get off the sidelines and challenge the Clinton Machine head on. If she gets nominated, then it would be a good warm-up for the general. If she doesn't, then we have helped improve the American political landscape by pushing that woman and her grasping husband off the national stage.
Caveat: If Obama somehow gets nominated and picks Hillary as a running mate, then this post is inoperative and all bets are off.

Comments :
A question for you
How do you explain Hillary's success at working in a bipartisan manner in the senate, if she is such an unlikeable vicious polarizing figure?
Do you think that just maybe that image is one that has been manufactured by almost two decades of visceral hatred by the right? Just possibly?
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
He's just another Hillary hater
Notice how he refers to her as "that woman."
qui tacet consentire
Is it beyond your imagination
to think that someone could be for Obama, not necessarily because they hate Hillary, but just because they are for Obama?
Typecasting stereotypes......
All Republicans hate Hillary. All black voters will vote for Obama. All women will support Hillary. And anyone that is for Obama must obviously be a Hillary hater.
It is the economy, stupid.
You forgot all Latinos for Clinton
Otherwise you've got it down pat.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Uh...
I think his point was based on Charles descriptions of Hillary not his support for Obama.
Not everything revolves around the guy, you know? :)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Apparently
everything is being seen through a narrow lens.
qui tacet consentire
That's how you win an election.....
targeting..... ask Mark Penn. :)
My question is how many black votes will the wife of the man fondly known as 'the first black President' get?
It is the economy, stupid.
The polls speak for themselves...
...on her unlikeability. In the Senate, Hillary is one of 51 equals in her party, so the rules are different. The White House is something else, and I've already seen eight years of her behavior there. Eight years too many.
How many of the polled people
have ever actually met Hillary Clinton?
The people who actually worked with her seemed to do fine.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
There is gonna be
a whole lot of very very disappointed democrats and progressives, if Hillary wins the nomination.
After fighting for eight years for a progressive turnaround, she will suck all the oxygen out of the grassroots movement. The thought of it is just utterly depressing. It is a feeling that I imagine many conservatives are familiar with after being disappointed by Bush.
It is the economy, stupid.
Yes they do
LINK. It's two months old, but doesn't show Hillary in a negative light, especuially compared to Republicans.
She is notorious for being kind to her supporters
and and an enemy to those who don't.
Remember Al Gore. Hillary and Gore were and are not filled with warm feelings for each other. And for a while there everyone was enamored of a Gore nomination.
It would be delicious to hear what Gore really thinks about the Clintons.
It is the economy, stupid.
Ok, let's not exaggerate her bipartisan credentials
She seems to get along alright with most of the GOP Senators, participates in prayer group, for all I know they play poker and softball on weekends, but what significant legislation has she cosponsored with a Republican?
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I know she's collaborated with Gingrich on some
health care ideas, but I don't believe anything concrete came out of it so far. It will be interesting to see if she reaches out to him if she is elected.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
She's a triangulator.
that's why she's vague about a lot most of her ideas. She doesn't want to seem like she's going back on anything she said.
We agree
The Clinton machine has stepped over the line, by boxing in a Democratic nominee as 'the black candidate' intentionally.
After working for civil rights, to stir up the hornets nest of race subtly yet intentionally, for raw political gain, is to me unforgiveable and hypocritical Worse than being a bigot. At least a bigot is honest.
In the short term this may work to get him some votes. In the long term he has damaged his once resalvaged reputation.
It is now hard for me not see him in any other light than as a brilliant narcissist.
If Hillary would run on her own, without using her husband Bill has a attack dog surrogate I would have a lot more respect for her as 'the first woman' candidate.
It is the economy, stupid.
Meh
First, Edwards is going to stay in for a very long time. He's going to try and be king maker at the convention. I certainly hope we get a brokered convention on both sides.
Second, conservatives can't stand the "two Americas" schtick because it's true. Conservatives hate class warfare and economic populism because they know they'll lose.
As for the rest, I prefer Obama to Clinton as well. Their policy positions are very similar, but I simply can't trust a word that comes out of her mouth. If she's elected, nothing meaningful will be done for 4 years unless the Democrats get about 65 Senate seats. Republicans will refuse to compromise on bills based purely on spite for her. Obama could probably get the same bills through.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
The triumph of hope over experience
I really have no idea why anyone would think that Republicans would compromise on a bill the Obama would support rather than the same bill that Clinton would support. I see no evidence over the past twenty years or so that would make me think that was true. It's not about spite, it's about ideology. Despite BD's personal feelings, I don't think there would be any difference in how Republican politicians would treat an Obama presidency compared to a Clinton presidency.
To be blunt
and extremely politically un-correct about it:
Because he's black and they don't want to be labeled as racists. The same situation would occur if there were a woman running who wasn't the wife of Bill Clinton.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
You imply
a capacity for shame that I have seen no evidence of.
Didn't work for Gore,
"Wrrr for the people, thrrr for the powerful." A Shrum classic that crashed and burned. Gore was up by double digits before he launched that nonsense. Worked well for Edwards in 2004, too, no? At least Kerry made him a bridesmaid.
So close...
Actually Gore lost because he didn't talk it up enough. Same with Kerry. Both ran as fast as they could to the center after the primary (and Kerry even outflanked Bush on Iraq) and watched their leads crumble. Gore ran the worst general election campaign in history. Kerry tried his hardest to lose as well.
It doesn't get as much traction as one would intuitively expect due to the MSM pre-selecting candidates as viable. I for one, don't understand why Duncan Hunter was so far from the mainstream as to be non-viable. Gravel and Kucinich I can understand.
"Eat the rich" is a fundamentally good political strategy. It worked in Europe for quite awhile. After the 80s, the moderation occurred because socialist and leftist parties had no answer for the poor economy. In essence, they went too far. In fact the liberal parties in Europe are usually limited to consistent 3rd and 4th party status at the expense of the Socialist/Labor and Christian Democrat parties, which on economic issues don't disagree on too much.
Don't get me wrong though. Even at the state level, where I self-describe as a socialist, I don't expect much more in the way of government services as does Ender in his "ideal government" diary.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
I don't see any evidence for that
"Eat the rich" is a fundamentally good political strategy.
Doesn't seem to be in the US, where the "socialist!" label still hurts. Really, who are the populist politicians who have been elected on that platform recently? A handful out of 500+?
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
You win
Most of the safe liberal Democrats. I guess that qualifies as a handful.
Meh, maybe I'm talking out my rear end tonight. Sometimes I just get into spitballing mode and make stuff up.
One day if/when I ever run for office, this stuff is going to bury me (as if I'd have a chance in hell anyway).
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Well, I think the message does resonate
with a good-size chunk of the population, just not enough to win consistently or on a large scale. I don't personally agree with everything Edwards advocates but I'm glad he's in the Democratic party, and not just from an Overton window perspective; I think that the left really should be liberal and progressive and offer options beyond center-right on the US political spectrum. Ditto for Kucinich. Maybe in a few decades we'll be like Europe.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Nah Stinerman
We've got your back. It can all be chalked up to youthful exuberance ;}
Run, by all means, if you have the inclination.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
Heh
I'm way too lazy and introverted. I'd run a campaign worse than Fred Thompson.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
yes ,they ARE afraid of Hillary ......
its so obvious , look how many times she was mentioned in the Rep debate ( " I can beat her," NO I am the one to beat her ")....
Remember back when the Repubs were so DELIGHTED that Howard Dean ( the " crazy man " ) was going to be the DLC chair.... ( " it will ruin the Dem Party forever" ) ... then the Dems won in Nov 2006 ... don't hear much now about " crazy Howard Dean " .
If anyone thinks Obama will somehow get a pass from the slime in any way .... did you all see Mc Laughlin with all the Rezko involvement he has?
Obama can watch , learn and wait as far as Im concerned ,,,, its HIllary time now !!!!
sligowoman
That might be okay
but it seems to be a package deal.
The comment that stuck out in my mind, came from Mitt Romney. Something about...... wondering what Bill would do in the White House with..... all that time on his hands. A definitive reference to his sexual appetite for interns.
She would be better off without him. I don't see how you can run as the first woman candidate, and be so dependent on the powers that your husband holds as ex President.
My question is can Hillary control her husband and of course the implication is that he could get out of control.
Of course Obama will not get a pass from the slime. It's just a bit shocking that so much of it is coming from the Clinton machine. But it is pretty rich of the Clinton's to imply donor irregularities, when their political history has been rife with questionable contributers.
I don't expect anything about this election to be fair especially if it involves the Clintons. It's what they are famous for.
IN a certain sense hard core gunslinging political operatives respect the Clintons for having such a powerful and impenetrable political machine. That is the question that Tim Russert is asking. Can you stand up to the Clinton's political gunslingers, of whom one is Bill.
It is the economy, stupid.
A US Woman President
Many industrialized countries and other countries had women presidents---and I really look forward to a woman president in the US.
I really dont see why Hillary is considered not truthful, too cautious yes. Who wouldnt blame her--everyword she says will be examined under the microscope and used against her. I like Hillary--but I dont like the people she surrounds herself with---Mark Penn, Carville, Al From etc-- I just see $$$$ from the people around her. I really think she would make a good president---very smart, knowledgeable on the issues.
I see all of them stretching and distorting spins and comments.
I agree with Bill Clinton--Obama got elected because he was anti war--but when he got to the senate--he voted like Hillary did--to fund the war.
I would prefer Obama if this was his second Senate term and he has a string of Senate accomplishments--but not yet now.
My objection to McCain is he is too old. He will be 76 when he finishes his first term. Romney is a phoney and a snakeoil salesman. Guiliani -- corruption and cronyism will be worse under him (Kerik). Huckabee is not a really nice person after all ( Thomson has to take his Metamucil, Romney is not the moderator snap and other gaffes)
That is true
The First Woman President...... yet there is something unseemly about the Banana Republic aspect to this which everyone ignores........ is this really the re-election of Bill?
If she could de-couple herself from her husband, I would find her campaign a lot more palatable.
We already see that the tone of the nomination process has changed....... and everyone is talking about Bill. Of course he loves it. It makes him 'relevant'.
It is the economy, stupid.
Bill Clinton and media cant help it
But still Bill Clinton was a good president and loved by the world. But Hillary can stand her ground. Even without Bill Clinton she is smart, intelligent, a policy wonk and hard working.
So 2 for 1 was nice. Both of them are policy wonks.
After his presidency, he did not seek to be a lobbyist for Oil sheiks or Carlyle Group. He instead engaged in philantrophy to ease world poverty.
Media cant help it--they are awe struck with Bill Clinton. And I cannot find any concrete reason why the right hates Hillary and Bill Clinton except--that they are Democrats who were successful and it is only an emotional reaction.
However the left has all the reason to hate Bush--for what he did to the country and our national debt.
I don't think people are ignoring it
It seems like the dynastic thing is a concern for people (including me). Of course you can also ask if someone qualified should be discounted merely because of their relationship to a former president. I think the answer there is to break up the incestuous DLC so we are getting a wider variety of candidate for the highest levels.
If we have political mobility , for lack of a better term, we are going to discourage dynasticism by right of meritocratic action.
Yeah, I know: uber-idealistic :)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Good point
I like Hillary--but I dont like the people she surrounds herself with---Mark Penn, Carville, Al From etc-- I just see $$$$ from the people around her. I really think she would make a good president---very smart, knowledgeable on the issues.
She's certainly intelligent and politically adept, but as you say her inner circle is not one that most Democrats would pick.
If Obama loses he will go back to the Senate and do good work for the party there. It's not the end of the world for him.
Still, as far as accomplishments go, Hillary hasn't really sponsored all that many significant bills herself in the Senate. Obama has got a lot done for the limited time he's been there. I think part of that was intentional on her part, she didn't want to seem presumptuous when she got elected and so she deliberately took a background role, working behind the scenes.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Out of curiosity I decided to try and establish
how much legislation each had sponsored in the senate.
First Obama:
source
Okay so we have Immigration reform (killed)
Border fence (passed but later defunded IIRC)
Arms reduction (passed)
Govt transparency (passed)
Foreign aid (passed)
more govt transparency (passed)
clean election (submitted but not voted on yet)
(I'm not sure if "energy initiatives" means legislation or not)
Iraq war withdrawal (referred to committee, but its DOA and we all know it)
Military affairs (looks like it passed)
punitive Iran measure (in committee)
Nuclear arms control (passed)
SCHIP (vetoed)
Of the legislation listed a fair amount was cosponsored by Republicans, particularly moderate republicans such as McCain, Lugar, and Hagel but also Coburn who has a perfect (so to speak) ACU rating.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Damn
having a hard time finding a good matching reference.
Maybe this is better in terms of apples-to-apples:
From here and here.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
I know, I wish Wikipedia would standardize
entries for Senators to all include a list of sponsored legislation and key votes, in exactly the same formatting.
Clinton probably worked in a more difficult environment because the GOP had more Senators at the time, to be fair.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Using just the stats above
it looks like a wash to me. Clinton's numbers are all about 2x but she's been in the senate about twice as long so that's to be expected. Unfortunately that site doesn't break down partisan vs bipartisan sponsorship of bills that pass/fail.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Wait, but what *significant* bills has she
sponsored or cosponsored? That she sponsored or cosponsored a bill recognizing somebody from NY for something would get her on your list but doesn't really count IMHO. You listed some of the *significant* ones Obama worked on, but nothing for her. I'm not even saying it has to have become law, I'll take examples of her influencing the national debate (like Obama on immigration, for example). She's done some important work, like post-9/11aid, but what are the signature accomplishments of her eight years
in the Senate?
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I don;t think they are afraid of her
They honestly believe she's as hateful and hated as they;ve made her out to be all these years. Consequently they think they actually have a chance to win (despite all the problems they currently face) if she's the candidate.
I suspect they are going to be somewhat disappointed because they've lowered expectations so much that even die hard rightwingers are often pleasantly surprised when they actually see the real Hillary (there was a NR commentor who made this comment grudgingly).
Now on the other hand the right will probably do better with fundraising should Hillary be the dem for much the same reason- their are people on the right that hate her so much they'd take out a third mortgage just to oppose her. Whether that will matter in a year when the GOP is completely stapped for cash and the Dems are flush is an open question.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
They think they hate her bec Bill O and Rush says so
But when Hillary is allowed to be herself --like she did so in NH--then she will be fine.
Obama is really a great orator and he inspires and excites new voters.
May the best candidate win--my issue really now-between the two great candidates--who can best beat McCain or Romney in General Election.
Obama--they will hit him on experience.
Hillary--they will hit her on authenticity.
But both really will make good presidents.
This is a verifiable fact
from the gang at PowerlineBlog
Is it any wonder that Republicans are rooting for and defending Hillary?
You say they have all the old dirty uncovered? Except for the unsealed documents at the Clinton Library...... which lead to some truly interesting donor lists, that the Republicans will gleefully trash the Clintons with.
The Clintons are the Road to Republican Victory
The question to be asked is who is really funding the Clinton campaign?
A Hillary nomination can't come soon enough for the Republicans. It's their best chance at winning inn 08.
It is the economy, stupid.
No it is an opinion
an opinion from powerline at that. Those guys are far from the sharpest tools in the shed (although they are definitively tools)
Many on the right *think* that they will have an easier time against Hillary than Obama. I suspect, for the reason laid out above, that they are mistaken. By lowering expectations so much it is virtually impossible for Hillary not to over perform with independents. Meanwhile Dems are voting in their primaries at much higher levels and rep self identification is way down. Consequently arguments that Hillary will lose because of the rep tidal wave to vote against her fall flat.
You can't get a tidal wave in a kiddie pool.
Meanwhile Obama has been built up so much that once people start actually paying attention he's going to have to be spectacular just to meet expectations.
Would Obama still win? Most likely. But I see no reason to believe he'll have an easier time than Hillary would.
P.S. the reps, as proven above, will be vastly overconfident in the face of a Hillary nomination. Much the opposite in the case of Obama.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Referring to the Clinton LIbrary
sir. Not the opinion on powerline.
The Clinton donors yet to be revealed by the Clinton library, with which the Republicans would have a field day with in the General.
The link provides more information.
It is the economy, stupid.
I have a hard time seeing that amounting to much
I mean, sure if you had OBL listed as a donor that's one thing, but given all the photos of Bush holding hands with the saudis a check for a presidential library seems less than scandalous.
Know what I mean?
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
There are implications
of Saudi funds. So the Republicans could run with that from here to the White House. Republican Swiftboating joy. It's just another target.
It is the economy, stupid.
Yeah as opposed to accusing her of murder...
Consider the following:
1) you are accused of having had a hand in the supposed suicide of someone who is involved in your ongoing scandal, OR
2) You are accused of getting a donation from saudis to build a library.
Now which of those sounds more sensational? Which seems more likely to get people talking? Which has already happened?
See what I mean about lowered expectations? When the right has already thrown everything at Hillary (and they have short of genocide claims) the little stuff ceases to be all that noticeable.
When your schtick is shock the bang has to get bigger each time. Charitable donations to a library by Saudis is pretty small.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Actually, they've thrown genocide claims too
There is a very strange alliance between fringe far-left and far-right groups with respect to the Iraqi sanctions, which are regarded in some quarters
as tantamount to genocide. (Note that mocking this extreme view is not to say I think the sanctions were managed as they should have been.) Usually it's Bill who gets the blame but I bet Hillary could share...
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson