No, Rudy, That’s NOT Fiscal Conservatism
Promoted by Brendan
Rudy’s bold claim last Sunday on ABC’s This Week: "The case for me is that I am the strongest fiscal conservative in the race”.
On what basis does Rudy make this claim? Apparently on the basis that he is offering “the biggest tax cut plan of anyone running.” http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iyM-KTdp3jrniNOZ80hWZGc7ZWiQD8U9TH0G0
Folks, forgive my haphazard transitions from third person to second person (addressing Rudy), but well, I just wanna do both.
Rudy, I know – just as your campaign strategists know – that many (probably most) GOP primary voters unfortunately see inclination toward tax-cutting as the clear, undisputable, ultimate gauge of fiscal conservatism, but that doesn’t make it so. I know that such folks have bought into the convenient supporting myth that tax cuts “pay for themselves” or even “increase revenues”, or that tax cuts will “starve the beast” (deprive Washington of revenues) enough to avoid a substantial negative budgetary impact, or (somehow) both of the above (the “somehow” referring to the fact that the belief that a given tax cut will increase revenues over a given time period AND decrease revenues over the same period are mutually exclusive, or so one would think).
Rudy is currently hawking the former invalid premise (“tax cuts increase revenues”), although upon being confronted with it at the last debate by Fox News moderator Chris Wallace, he backed down to referring only to corporate income tax cuts (the revenue feedback effect of which has been studied relatively little), as opposed to making the general sort of statement that he has made (including in TV ads) to support his broader tax cut proposals, which include tax cuts on individual labor and investment income (the revenue feedback effect of which has been studied extensively, leading to the consensus view among economists or right, left, center, and non-partisan that such tax cuts from anywhere near current tax rates are unlikely to come anywhere close to revenue-neutrality – i.e., they have a very substantial net negative impact on revenues http://www.swordscrossed.org/node/1671 ). Rudy did still, however, assert that the Bush tax cuts, essentially tax cuts on individual labor and investment income, have had a positive impact on revenues (get me a shovel, please) and asserted a dynamic regarding corporate tax cuts that is at best not well-substantiated.
Oh, and anyone banking on “starve the beast” and willing to bet the nation’s future on it has been asleep throughout at least this decade.
Rudy, under current tax rates and under current entitlement policies and reasonable extrapolations of discretionary spending, our nation faces projected long-term fiscal imbalances (driven largely by entitlement spending and Medicare spending in particular) that just about every economist and other budget expert of every political stripe agree will devastate our economy and standard of living within a couple of decades, and will ultimately require much more severe spending cuts and/or tax hikes (and you can bet on “and” rather than “or”) the longer we wait to start reducing this fiscal imbalance*.
So, Rudy, if you’re still with me, we face an enormous fiscal imbalance and your “biggest tax cut plan of anyone running” will most likely make it much worse at a time when it is vital that we get started at mitigating it.
OK, so now back to your equation of tax cutting with fiscal conservatism, and your childish, begging-for-parody boast that you’re the biggest fiscal conservative because you’re proposing the biggest tax cut (it’s fiscal policy, Rudy, not an auction). Rudy, those of us who are TRUE fiscal conservatives consider two elements essential to fiscal conservatism: (1) fiscal responsibility, and (2) realistic economic assumptions. If you haven’t noticed by now, Rudy, your sophomoric, d*ck-waving, ignorance-exploiting “biggest tax cut plan of anyone running” is neither, and while those of us who are true fiscal conservatives may be a minority and perhaps a dying breed, it doesn’t change the fact that we’re right and you’re wrong, and we resent you masquerading as one of us and appropriating a descriptor (a badge of honor, in our opinion) that applies to us and not to you. If you want to charge more to our national credit card even in the face of enormous unfunded liabilities, find yourself a label other than “fiscal conservative”.
And Rudy, all of the above is coming from someone who is struggling to choose between you and one other candidate (McCain) and someone who greatly appreciates what you did for his city. I know that the Mr. McCain is also pandering on this issue, although largely driven to do so largely by you and the King of Pander, Flip Romney. But you've been the most aggressive on this point (and pointing out harmful pandering by Romney is like dunking a basketball through a six-foot high hoop), so you deserve it. But don't worry, ignorance will prevail, and your misleading rhetoric is still going to be very much a net vote-getter.
* Some suggested reading/video on our unfunded liabilities problem and related long-term fiscal imbalance:
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetchartbook/charts_P/p4.cfm (chart uses data from CBO report at link below, per Scenario 2 -- tax revenues at historical levels as percent of GDP)
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetchartbook/charts_P/p9.cfm (chart uses data from CBO report at link below, per Scenario 2 -- tax revenues at historical levels as percent of GDP)
Comptroller David Walker on 60 Minutes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs
http://www.concordcoalition.org/events/fiscal-wake-up/fiscal-wake-up-cal...
CBO report, December 2005 http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/69xx/doc6982/12-15-LongTermOutlook.pdf
CBO report, December 2007 (same type of report as the 2005 above) http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8877/12-13-LTBO.pdf I suggest reading at least the Executive Summary.
- B Rational's diary
- Login or register to post comments

Comments :
CfG thinks he is also a low spender
by the standards of New York, anyway:
Seems like he's overhyping
his record
as mayor, but in this field of GOP candidates maybe he is the strongest fiscal conservative. If you look at the spending end McCain isn't bad.
For me the disqualifier for Rudy is his foreign policy, which seems obtusely belligerent instead of sensibly restrained. The adverbs likely reflect my liberal politics, but would probably draw agreement from at least some GOP primary voters.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
McCain is the most fiscally
McCain is the most fiscally conservative, and has shown the biggest onions in acting accordingly -- opposing Medicare Part D, aggressively fighting pork, even his crusade for campaign finance reform, while arguably not reflecting a conservative constitutional perspective, was largely motivated by a desire to stop moneyed interests from ripping off American taxpayers and consumers with unnecessary or overpriced projects, subsidies, special tax breaks, import quotas, etc. He opposed Medicare Part D probably knowing that doing so is a net political loser for a guy who wished in 2008 to win both the nomination and the general election for president someday. He opposed ethanol subsidies (and opposed even more ethanol-related policies in 2000) knowing that doing so inhibits his appeal in Iowa. And his opposition to the Bush tax cuts was the more fiscally conservative position, for the same reasons stated in my post (diary).
As far as Rudy's aggressive
As far as Rudy's aggressive foreign policy rhetoric, it's all part of his (successful) effort to position himself as Mr. National Security / War on Terror / Commander in Chief despite having no experience with foreign policy, national security, or military matters.
By the way, I'm dishing out
By the way, I'm dishing out a lot of criticism of Rudy, so lest anyone doubt my sincerity in saying that he's essentially tied with just one other candidate in the quest to be the least intolerable candidate to me (and thus get my vote), let me state, hopefully not to end up diverting discussion from the point of my post, some reasons why I prefer Rudy to all the others, except for McCain with whom he's tied.
- Strong exec experience. Great job in NYC through smart policies that faced tough resistance.
- Despite shifts to the right on abortion (although not as shamelessly Romney-esque as Romney), guns and other issues, he is closer to my social views than the others (wish I could have the Old Rudy on social issues though).
- Not such an obviously shameless flip-flopper that his election would want me to get off the planet (i.e, he's not Romney).
- Probably most electable in a general election, only because McCain is an unreliable debater and public speaker in general.
What do you think of Rudy's latest attack on John McCain?
Rudy's recently attacked John McCain for the fact that John McCain voted against tax-cuts like 50 some times. I guess its just always wrong to vote against tax-cuts no matter what. As far as I could tell there was no usefull discussion by Rudy on why those tax-cuts shouldn't have been voted against - it was just assumed that they were tax-cuts therefore they were good. It follows the logic which I think is largely handed down to us by talk-shows: " tax-cut
I question the value of the term conservatism these days. It seems that it has just become a code word for a laundry list of policy positions. More this, less that, and more of this. It just means more taxes, less spending ( at least that's what I hear) bigger military... None of those positions are bad positions, but there's obviously times when a country needs to go in one direction or times when it needs to go in another direction. Taxes are a perfect example of this.
Nobody would support no taxes unless they were anarchists and nobody would support 100% taxes unless they were a Communist. Therefore, unless you are an anarchist or a Communist its going to make sense to you, that sometimes taxes can be too low and sometimes they can be too high. But our pop culture doesn't allow for this(read talk radio). Either you support higher taxes and are an evil liberal or you support lower taxes and are one of the saintly conservatives. Or you might happen to sometimes support higher taxes while at other times supporting lower taxes, in which case you're a squishy moderate. But it only makes sense to me that sometimes taxes will be too high and sometimes they will too low.
Rudy's attack on McCain makes it seem that Rudy holds the any tax-cut is a good tax-cut policy. By todays talkradio terminology I think this makes Rudy an excellent Fiscal Conservative. All in all though I think the term Conservative is losing any useful meaning.
yup
yup
So its time you give up Rudy
and go for McCain. Oh and send him a big check to so that he beat Rudy in Florida. :-)
Not such a clear choice, and
Not such a clear choice, and certainly not based on my criticism and yours here. Rudy has strengths that make him attractive as a nominee and as a president, and McCain has some weaknesses (as nominee, he's a relatively poor debater and public speaker, and as prez, he seems to have bought into much of the "tax cuts, higher revenues" myth, although his economics advisor, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, has said essentially, "No, he didn't really mean that"). Having said that, although I'm on the fence, I'm tilting McCain.
Considering McCain voted against the Bush tax-cuts
I get the feeling that he doesn't think all tax-cuts mean higher revenue. I mean if you bought to that whole theory why would ever vote against a tax-cut. You have a tax-cut and you can be closer to balancing the budget. More money people's pockets and more money for the Government to use - come to think about it like creating money - and I don't mean the legal tender. Therefore, I feel like McCain is the type of Conservative who is going to go for spending cuts as long and not just cut taxes and cut spending.
Your logic is correct (that
Your logic is correct (that he must have believed the tax cuts would have a negative impact on revenues if he opposed them) IF he was really thinking it through in terms of revenue impact and opposed it for that reason, but not if he opposed them in an attempt to achieve (and/or state a preference for) a different kind of tax cut (more focused on the middle class) or to acheive a tax cut combined with spending cuts to reduce the debt even more (even if he thought the tax cuts would increase revenues).
In any case, as he campaigned last year he said very explicitly and in the broadest manner that (paraphrasing) "tax cuts always increase revenues", claiming that history has proven that, so if he believed in 2001 & 2003 that the Bush tax cuts would have a negative impact on revenues, the possibilities are (1) he has changed his view since, perhaps convinced by the increased revenues since, (2) he was lying last year. Frankly, I don't know which it is. He recently said honestly (and stupidly for a presidential candidate) that he doesn't understand economics as well as he thinks he should, so it's quite possible that he believed last year that that statement was true, and in fact I consider that more likely than not. I think since then he's been corrected by Holtz-Eakin and has refrained from repeating that myth, but I can't say for sure (he very notably side-stepped the question when asked directly at the Fox News debate earlier this month).
I would the say the advisors a person picks says alot about
what their policy will be. It won't be McCain calling all the shots - one of the most important things is to get surrounded by good advisors. I guess I remember hearing that quote, allthough its kind of vague now. Could it be possible that he may have been speaking to feedback rather than the fact that the government actually ends up with more revenue? I mean tax-cuts do cause an increase in revenue its just that they cause a bigger decrease - or at least thats my understanding.
The thing is, McCain has a record of not opposing tax-cuts, which I think speaks to his fiscal responsibility. He said that he opposed the tax-cuts because they were not accompinied by spending cuts, though I'm told that at the time his stated problem was too much of the tax-cut was going to the wealthiest of Americans. Anyway, that statement suggests to me that McCain thinks a tax-cut lowers revenue and therefore, needs to be accomponied by a spending cut. Rudy otoh I have heard has a policy of just throwing out a bunch of taxes and seeing which one sticks.
Finally, yes I'm biased towards McCain for several reasons besides the tax-cuts. Later maybe I will explain why I don't think Rudy may not be as electable as you think.
Yeah that last sentence, was bad grammar but its late. NT.
NT.
FYI, Nice column
FYI, Nice column here:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/the_real_conservative_...
Note: When she says "The man who says he is not a creature of Washington presented no spending cuts in the stimulus package", if she means that spending cuts would contribute to immediate stimulus, she's clueless, but if she means (as I think is more likely) that a fiscal conservative would couple a fiscal stimulus proposal with spending cuts (above and beyond any he already planned) that would not work substantially against the stimulus -- and would compensate later for the increased deficit now -- she's making a fair point.
Who cares what Rudy's economic plan is?
Nobody cares what he has to say any more. He's the party guest who won't leave.
Rudy is dropping like a stone because the more people get to know him the less they like him.
I'm just looking forward to next week and Rudy's GBCW speech.
qui tacet consentire
ok, as of last night I'm
ok, as of last night I'm firmly on the McCain side of the McCain-Rudy fence, and it has nothing to do with recent polls. It's because McCain mentioned that among his close advisors on economic policy are Warren Rudman, Pete Peterson, and the Concord Coalition (with which those two were founders and/or are heavily involved). Those names spell "fiscal responsibility". Music to my ears! True, he also mentioned knee-jerk tax cutter Jack Kemp, but oh how wonderful it would be to have a president who was heavily influenced by the Concord Coalition (a non-partisan organization that is simply urging fiscal responsibility and fiscal policies that are based on realistic assumptions)
hehe it's all fine and good
but that answer was in the context of a non-response to Paul... :) So he was just dropping names as if that made up for it.
Rudy is going down and there is nothing we can do about that. McCain vs Romney!
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Stick to football, Mr. Kemp
Kemp is a true believer in Laffer. But then again he isn't; let me explain.
I recall him testifying at a congressional hearing on taxes. He mentioned that he believed maximum revenue is derived with a flat tax of about 25%. He also distanced himself from the Grover Norquists and said that he was about getting the most revenue. He then repeated something like:
"No, I'm not part of the starve-the-beast crowd. I think the tax rate should never be higher than 25% during times of peace."
So during times of war a greater tax rate gets you more revenue but during peacetime it doesn't? How does that work, pray tell, Mr. Kemp?
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
I'm a true believer in the
I'm a true believer in the Laffer Curve. It would be silly not to be, as a matter of simple algebra and common sense. What is ridiculous is what some people erroneously claim are implications the Laffer Curve -- that tax cuts (always, generally, or at tax rates resembling current ones) have a net positive impact on revenues.
Well...
0% taxes obviously get 0 revenue. 100% doesn't get 0 revenue, but it gets less than 75%.
Everyone assumes that the curve is a smooth, continuous concave parabola. It's nothing of the sort. I prefer the neo-Laffer curve
as a better approximation of reality.
As I said once before, I think once you get north of somewhere around 50%-60% on the top income bracket, you run the risk of reducing revenues. I'd be very surprised to see revenues increase when cutting taxes below 40% on top wage earners.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
lol re: neo-Laffer
lol re: neo-Laffer curve.
Re: "Everyone assumes that the curve is a smooth, continuous concave parabola. It's nothing of the sort."
I don't know if everyone, or even most people who have really thought about it assumes that. I certainly don't. But it's also somewhat beside the point (at least beside the point I was making in my reply to you), which is that some (conceptually-challenged) people misconstrue the Laffer Curve as implying that tax cuts always (or at least generally) increase revenues without regard to what tax cuts are before and after the tax cuts. RedState abounds with such people, invoking the Laffer Curve as in "Of COURSE lowering tax rates increases revenues -- ever hear of the Laffer Curve?? Duh!" Gotta love it when people combine ignorance with snark in the same statement.
Yep
And then, of course, you have the people who demand a tax cut (which apparently always raises revenues) to put a fiscal straitjacket on congress.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Right, and that can actually
Right, and that can actually be fun. I've had occasions when I've gotten someone to say that he thinks tax cuts increase revenues (always or as a general rule) and then a few minutes later to say that he believes that tax cuts will force lower government spending by "starving the beast". Then I just asked how the same tax cuts could both INCREASE and DECREASE revenues (over the same time period), and in the several seconds that followed, I could hear every cricket in the neighborhood.
That's so delicious
I think I will bookmark it for future reference.
It is the economy, stupid.
Well welcome to the straight talk express. NT.
NT.
Well, I won't go that far
Well, I won't go that far (he was closer to that label in 2000), but everything is relative, he's closer to straight talk than the others, he has other strengths, and well, ya' gotta' choose somebody.
Good op-ed by Mankiw
Good op-ed by Mankiw (Chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisors, 2003-2005).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/business/03view.html?ex=1359694800&en=...
And this one from WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120183030007834031.html
(note: why they don't include interest expense in their chart is baffling to me -- not exactly a minor budget item, as you can see in this chart http://www.heritage.org/research/features/BudgetChartBook/charts_P/p4.cfm
, which uses data from a December 2005 CBO report but the picture hasn't changed much since then).
Gotta love the title of Pete Peterson's book, as fitting today as it was when he wrote it a dozen years ago, Will America Grow up Before it Grows Old? http://www.amazon.com/Will-America-Grow-Before-Grows/dp/0679452567/ref=s...
. Unfortunately, we, as voters, haven't grown up yet. The left wants to spend and spend. The right wants to...well, also to spend and spend, but a bit less, and to cut taxes (or some on the right want to cut spending, too, but they have absolutely no idea how much would be needed to cut and from where [or just haven't really thought through the implications] in order to have the tax cuts and avoid a devastating fiscal imbalance). And no one wants to be a big boy and take his medicine even if it tastes yucky.
Good column
Good column http://www.newsweek.com/id/108374