Resolved: NASA should send humans to Mars
Some random resources and excerpts for a debate on whether NASA should send humans to Mars.
Reaction to Bush's directive to NASA to explore manned exploration of Mars: NASA's Moon-Mars Initiative Harms Science: American Physical Society Report .
"Returning Americans to the Moon and landing on Mars would have a powerful symbolic significance," the APS report observes, "but it would constitute only a small step in the advancement of knowledge, since much will already be known from exploration with the robotic precursor probes that are necessary to guarantee the safety of any human mission."
[...] "The APS report is false on its face," Zubrin told SPACE.com. "In fact, NASA's most cost-effective science program to date has been the Hubble Space Telescope, a human spaceflight activity. Hubble may have cost twice the Galileo mission to Jupiter, but it has returned more than 100 times the science. This is proof that when human spaceflight activities are properly targeted, they can achieve far more science return than is possible with robotic means."
NASA's current plan for Mars exploration is focused on robotic missions: NASA Explores the Red Planet: Beyond 2009 .
In the second decade of the 21st century, NASA plans additional science orbiters, rovers, and landers. One proposal is for a Mars Sample Return mission that would use robotic systems and a Mars ascent rocket to collect and send samples of martian rocks, soils, and atmosphere to Earth for detailed chemical and physical analysis.
[...] Another proposal is for an Astrobiology Field Lab that would conduct a robotic search for life. It would be the first mission since Viking in the 1970s to look specifically for evidence of past or present life. The robotic lab would carry instruments for identifying and measuring the chemical building blocks for life.
Mars society page of FAQs, including details on the Mars Direct plan: The Mars Society Frequently Asked Questions .
Mars Direct is a sustained humans-to-Mars plan developed by Dr. Robert Zubrin that advocates a minimalist, live-off-the-land approach to space exploration, allowing for maximum results with minimum investment. Using existing launch technology and making use of the Martian atmosphere to generate rocket fuel, extracting water from the Martian soil, and eventually using the abundant mineral supplies of Mars for construction purposes, the plan drastically lowers the amount of material which must be launched from Earth to Mars, thus sidestepping the primary stumbling block to space exploration and rapidly accelerating the timetable for human exploration of the solar system.
[...] If done in a cost-effective manner such as Mars Direct, human exploration of Mars can be accomplished easily under the existing NASA budget -- which currently accounts for less than 1% of federal discretionary spending. A total mission cost of $30 billion, when spread out over the 20 years envisioned by Mars Direct (10 years to first flight, 10 years afterwards during which fivce missions are flown), represents approximately 10% of the $300 billion NASA budget for that time frame (based upon current annual funding levels of $15 billion).
Slashdot post on the House stripping funding for manned exploration of Mars from NASA's budget: Subcommittee Stops Human Mars Mission Spending .
Last week's House Appropriations Subcommittee for Commerce, Justice, and Science FY08 budget markup would prevent work on programs devoted to human missions to Mars. According to a House Appropriations Committee press release, the markup language states that NASA cannot pursue "development or demonstration activity related exclusively to Human Exploration of Mars. NASA has too much on its plate already, and the President is welcome to include adequate funding for the Human Mars Initiative in a budget amendment or subsequent year funding requests." The Mars Society is already leading an effort to get the language removed.
Recent article about timeline for returning to moon and then Mars: NASA on target for return to the moon by 2020--officials .
Despite funding uncertainty, NASA is on track to return humans to the moon by 2020 and set up a lunar outpost to serve as a springboard to explore Mars, officials said Monday. "Our job is to build towns on the moon and eventually put tire prints on Mars," NASA's Rick Gilbrech told reporters here.
[...] "We're hoping we get a budget passed by Congress," he said, pointing out that only six-tenths of a penny of every tax dollar went to funding NASA's space programs. "We're making plans to be ready for any and all scenarios. The (budget proposal) we put in keeps our program on track for the March 2015 initial operating capability... and full operating capability a year later."
More links:
Physiological challenges
Space weather
Ion engine
Colonization of Mars
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Comments :
Did you want me to write a position diary?
Or are we saving it for the cage match?
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
I was thinking this thread could be for general discussion
and/or commentary while you and stinerman duke it out in your separate private thread.
Of course anything you write is welcome but it's definitely not necessary, I was mostly posting this here for my own reference to try to come up with meaningful questions.
How's 10:30 eastern work for you?
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Should be fine.
I might not be as scrappy as usual, this week has kicked my a$$.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
4. Directed to both:
What likelihood of catastrophic failure are you willing to accept? What has to happen to achieve this level of safety for a trip to Mars and back?
(extra question from debate)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I think that without proven environmental technology
a mars mission is far too dangerous.
The transportation technology issue is one of being able to do the mission at all, from both engineering and economic standpoints. Well that and being able to potentially evacuate. A rocket to bring people back from mars wouldn't be as enormous as the one to get there (because mars gravity is much smaller) but would still be far too large to be brought in the first place.
side issue- it is tempting to think that if we had better transportation we could just get there faster. This isn't really the case though because of how orbits work. You have to be going a specific speed to match velocity and orbital radius with the target. Unless we are talking about a completely radical new technology (something far beyond ion thrusters or mater-antimatter thrust) going to mars is going to take the same amount of time. What the better technology lets you do is take more stuff with you, cheaper, not get there faster.
The main issue that will determine the risk of catastrophe will be the environmental technology. This will have to be extremely robust because if it goes wrong you don;t really get a second chance (of course you'll have some amount of redundancy, but if they all fail...)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
5. Directed to pro:
What scientific information or natural resources does Mars have that the moon or nearby asteroids don't? Is it worth going the extra distance?
(extra question from debate)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
water is a big one.
the atmosphere has nitrogen and oxygen (although in levels far too low to be directly breathed)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
6. Directed to con:
Do you think that humanity can survive as a species restricted to Earth? If not, what concrete steps would you take to begin the process of colonizing space?
(extra question from debate)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Humanity will die out
that's certain. The only question is when. So colonizing other planets makes no difference to the fundamental question of if, but it might significantly delay the inevitable.
I certainly think it would be advantageous to humanity to spread out a bit. but to e realistic it is a long ways off that we could consider having a stable population of humans anywhere else that was totally independent of earth. Even a robust moon or mars colony is going to rely on some things from earth for any forseeable future.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
7. Directed to both:
Do you think our society no longer values space exploration as we did during the Apollo era?
(extra question from debate)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
It's been a long time since Apollo
A long time since people really had a wonderous space achievement. I don't think it is so much that it isn't valued as people have forgotten. The rise of space tourism as a viable industry would indicate there is an underlying awe there, it just doesn't have much of an outlet at this time.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.