All You Need To Know About Fiscal Policy

  

I get it: When we're in recession, tax cuts are the answer. On the other hand, when we're in expansion, tax cuts are the answer. When we're projecting surpluses, tax cuts are the answer, and when we're projecting deficits, tax cuts are the answer. Meanwhile, our debt grows as the ticking demographic time-bomb gets closer to blowing our asses sky high.

Excerpted from The Wall Street Journal Online, 11/27/07 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119611821355604485.html

Tax Cuts Gain Relevance as Outlook Dims

So far, tax cuts have seemed largely a pro-forma campaign plank for Republican presidential candidates: Call for extending President Bush's tax cuts, establish your Reaganite credentials, and move on.

Until now, that is. With the economy heading toward an election-year slump, or worse, tax cuts to stimulate the economy are starting to look better and better as an item on the campaign menu.

[George Bush]

This change is being driven by the ugly realities of the real world. The subprime-lending mess is getting worse, not better. Housing prices are falling. Oil prices are rising. Lenders are tightening the credit spigot. The Federal Reserve's ability to keep cutting interest rates may be constrained by a plunging dollar, and the stock market took another big hit yesterday. The full impact of all this on the economy is only beginning to be felt.

A slowdown is inevitable, and a growing number of analysts are beginning to utter the dreaded "R" word. A recession in the middle of the 2008 presidential campaign would be a game-changer for both parties.

For Republicans, the bad news is that they inevitably would shoulder much of the blame because they control the White House. The good news for them is that they can start pushing tax cuts as a way to spur a slumping economy. That's a better argument than pushing tax cuts for their own sake, which is pretty much where Republicans have been. The moment may be meeting the message.

For Democrats, the tax-cut question will be the opposite: If the economy is perilously close to recession, do you really want to propose tax increases? And a tax increase is precisely how Republicans portray any move to undo the Bush tax cuts.

"If you're heading toward a slowdown and a credit-market problem, you certainly don't want to be doing what some guys on the other team are doing, which is proposing a tax increase," says Lawrence Lindsey, an economic adviser to the presidential effort of former Sen. Fred Thompson and an architect of the Bush tax cuts.

[Lawrence Summers]

Of course, Democrats aren't simply going to concede that argument. Look for Democratic candidates to begin portraying their own proposals for more modest middle-class tax relief as a stimulant for a sagging economy, not just as good medicine for middle America.

[...]

And Mr. Summers, a Democrat in good standing who led the Treasury Department for President Clinton, suggests that this at least puts tax cuts on the table: "As important as long-run deficit reduction is, fiscal policy needs to be on standby to provide immediate temporary stimulus through spending or tax benefits for low- and middle-income families if the situation worsens."

The costly war in Iraq makes it harder to push tax cuts without addressing that nagging problem of the federal budget deficit. But, as third-party presidential candidate Ross Perot discovered in the 1990s, the deficit has a limited impact on voters. A recession, on the other hand, is the sort of event that hits voters between the eyes and leaves them looking for immediate answers.

[Fred Thompson]

[...]

The changing economic picture is likely to alter those calculations, prompting candidates to increasingly frame their tax proposals as a way to stem the economic slide brought about by the housing mess.

It is unlikely Democrats can avoid the temptation to join in. Their argument probably will be that Republicans, with their plans to extend tax cuts for upper-income Americans and keep down tax rates on dividends and capital gains, are stimulating the wrong end of the economy -- the upper-income end.

Already, Sen. Barack Obama has proposed tax cuts aimed at the middle class, including a $1,000-per-family tax cut to offset rising payroll taxes. Sen. Hillary Clinton is pushing for tax cuts to help families save for retirement and tax credits for college costs. Those, too, can be portrayed as stimulating ideas -- and undoubtedly will be.

Write to Gerald F. Seib at jerry.seib@wsj.com1

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Oh, and remember, tax cuts

Oh, and remember, tax cuts "starve the beast" AND increase revenues at the same time! That's right, folks: Tax Cuts: A force so powerful it can defy logic. Able to provide two mutually exclusive results!

Amazing! Getcher tax cuts now, Get 'em right here, folks! And if you buy 'em now, we'll throw in a free bonus: extra spending! That's right, big tax cuts AND extra spending. But wait, there's more. If you order by November, 2008, you'll also get...fiscal responsibility! That's right, you'll get:
- Tax cuts (because it's your money, not the government's money)
- Starving the Beast
- Increasing revenues
- Extra spending
AND
- Fiscal responsibility

ALL FOR THE LOW, LOW, PRICE OF YOUR COUNTRY'S FUTURE! Order Now!!
(or VOTE NOW, as the case may be).

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Well said

Tips for when to cut taxes:

Tax cuts during recessions are necessary to stimulate the economy. They are also necessary during healthy economic growth since the revenues are up and people should be given their money back when we run a surplus.

Cato ran a study that said cutting taxes more often lead to an increase in spending while increasing them lead to a decrease in spending. This isn't too counter intuitive once you think about when tax cuts are made -- usually during economic downturns when spending is increased.

Its about time we go back to the tax policies of the 60s and tax the upper crust at rates near 70% until we get around to paying down our debt.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Thanks.   The Niskanen

Thanks.

 

The Niskanen (of Cato) analysis and conclusion, to which I assume you are referring, is apparently a subject of debate among economists, and it seems that the jury is out among at least some economists on whether or not lower tax rates and/or lower revenues induce lower spending. It may seem intuitive that lower revenues would induce lower spending, but an intuitive argument is made the other way as well -- that borrowing to spend rather than taxing to spend shields taxpayers from the pain of spending and reduces the incentive to curb spending. In addition to this intuitive aspect, the empirical evidence is debated.

 

A debate emerged among some economists after the Niskanen piece was published last year  http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v26n2/cpr-26n2-2.pdf . Niskanen is (or at least was at the time) Chairman of the Cato Institute and former member and acting chairman of President Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers. He holds a Ph.D. in economics from the (famously free-market...or infamously, depending on one's perspective) University of Chicago, which has honored him with a lifetime professional service award. Niskanen concluded that tax cuts led to HIGHER, not lower spending.

Economist Gregory Mankiw, who was Chairman of W Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors and is an economics professor at Harvard (now advising the Romney campaign), noted at the time that another prominent economist reached the opposite conclusion, with some differences in methodology (with perhaps some advantages), albeit with less recent data vs. Niskanen's analysis. Mankiw concluded that the jury is still out on which is correct -- it's just not clear if "starve the beast works" (i.e., if tax cuts lead to lower spending). http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/06/starving-beast.html .

 

Mark Thoma, who's a partisan pr*ck, but who, as a liberal, wouldn't have a vested interest in knocking Niskanen's conclusion, said "There are many more questions and until there is a much more thorough and complete investigation of this issue, I don't think these results should be taken very seriously. http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/05/a_closer_look_a.html

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Krugman

Krugman said it in a much better way than I could:

If the economy is growing, and tax receipts are rising, then it shows that past tax cuts achieved wonders, plus the Laffer curve is right — so let’s cut taxes some more!

If the economy is shrinking, well, it needs a boost — and what better boost than another round of tax cuts!

See, cutting taxes is always good. It makes you wonder why we ever had taxes in the first place.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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For the record, I posted my

For the record, I posted my snarky comments (this diary, above the article excerpt) on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 23:34, and Krugman posted his snarky comments on Tuesday, November 27, 2007, 11:21am. That little weasel must have stolen my undeniably unique idea to address that WSJ article with sarcasm.

And hey, Stinerman, why does the Krug Man get the Gold and my sarcasm just gets (maybe) the Silver? Oh well, I'm biased.

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Obviously

because he has a Ph.D.

:-)

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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correction: the Niskanen

correction: the Niskanen piece came out in 2004

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Have you considered running for office

on tax cuts!

Nice job B.

It is the economy, stupid.

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Thanks, but I'm not at all

Thanks, but I'm not at all sure I'd get your vote, Miss :)

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Yeah...

Oh, and remember, tax cuts "starve the beast" AND increase revenues at the same time! That's right, folks: Tax Cuts: A force so powerful it can defy logic. Able to provide two mutually exclusive results!

...I love the look on a supply sider's face when you point that out to them. It's like watching a dam break in slow motion as the first trickles of understanding make it past the rigid barriers of dogmatic economic belief. Classic.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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LOL. I like the way you put

LOL. I like the way you put that. And I've had that experience, too. And you're right. They get that amusing deer-in-the-headlights look! Their breathing halts for a couple of seconds, followed by an audible exhale, as if their soul has just been yanked from their bodies.

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B Rational.....

First off, you're absolutely right on tax cuts paying for themselves.  Then again, I don't know that serious thinkers are using that rationale.  Bush's own economists freely admit that the tax cuts do not pay for themselves.   

  

What are your thoughts on this commentary by Brad Warniaby?  http://unrepentantindividual.com/2005/10/02/the-useless-laffer-curve/

Just to expand on Warniaby's scenario analysis using less rosy projected growth figures.... where now is t=0, if long term growth is 3.0%, you double the size of an economy [E(t)] in year t+24.  If long term growth is 3.5%, you double the economy in t+21. 

At t+50, the economy in scenario A is 4.25*E(0)

At t+50, the economy in scenario B is 5.39*E(0)

 

At t+100, the economy in scenario A is 18.6*E(0)

At t+100, the economy in scenario B is 30.13*E(0)

 

In t +145, Hypothetical economy B is more than twice the size of hypothetical economy A.  A is 70*E(0).  B is 141*E(0).  All of this from an increase in long term growth from 3.0% to 3.5%. 

Through the power of compounding, we're increasing that differential at an increasing rate.  Putting real numbers on the table definitely gets me thinking about which rationale is really the immediate gratification option.

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First, while you are correct

First, while you are correct that even Bush's economists have stated clearly that tax cuts in general, including the Bush tax cuts, have a net NEGATIVE impact on revenues, Bush himself, along with Cheney, at least some of the Republican presidential candidates, the WSJ editorial board, Limbaugh and his imitators all emphatically contend the opposite.

As for the argument at that link, after reading just the first few paragraphs I can see that it is fundamentally flawed. Right off the bat, he makes a flatly incorrect assertion: "The problem is that the Laffer Curve is a static analysis." That doesn't even make sense. The Laffer Curve is all about dynamic effects. In fairness to that writer, I think what he means to say is that consensus of economists (of all stripes) that the revenue feedback effects are not great enough to make the tax cuts revenue-neutral (much less revenue-positive) is only looking at the short term, but this, too is incorrect. They are speaking of the long term. Lastly, while one could look at the exponential nature of incremental growth due to tax cuts and think that eventually incremental growth would have to compensate for an initial loss of revenue, that is neglecting the time value of money (i.e., present value analysis, using a discount rate). A dollar today is worth a lot more than a dollar ten years from now (aside from exchange rate changes), and not just because of inflation. There's also the cost of incremental debt (if we're running deficits), opportunity cost, and other factors that are taken into account in choosing a discount rate in net present value (NPV) analyis. So no, the incremental growth, even considering the exponential nature of economic growth (i.e,. compounding) does NOT mean that eventually a tax cut that generates incremental growth will generate increased revenue.

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I did a spreadsheet that incorporated

the NPV with present value of debt + interest just to see the practicality of tax cuts "paying for themselves" for myself.

Assumptions....
A flat 40% tax cut to 35% increased growth from 3.0 - 3.5% (all of this made up,)

IIRC, I got to revenue neutral (on an NPV basis) by year 135 (I think my assumed interest rate was 5%). All the while, the economy was as large as the numbersI laid out above and the positive revenue impact in the years beyond 135 were pretty incredible.

I think I still have the spreadsheet if anyone wants to see some scenario analysis.

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Needless to say, the whole

Needless to say, the whole analysis depends on your set of assumptions and depends a LOT on your choice of discount rate. Without getting too deep into all that (because it could get very, very deep/complex), I do want to point out that to say that you "got to revenue neutral (on an NPV basis) by year 135" does not make sense. NPV is NPV, right now, by definition. What exactly are you saying happens at year 135? Is that the year beyond which annual revenues are higher under the tax cut scenario than the non-tax-cut scenario, perhaps with the present value of additional debt expense for that year subtracted? Is it just looking at that year, or does it take into account the cumulative losses up to that point. Hard to tell what your referring to. I don't know when I'll be able to get back to you, but email me the spreadsheet (assuming everything is labeled so it's self-explanatory). Thanks.

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re: the NPV...

I'll send it over....

For those who won't see this marvelous sheet.

Sum of the NPV's of the revenues from each year discounting @ 5%. The summing would take into account the cumulative effect.

Year 135 was the point where Sum of NPV's of Scenario A - Sum of the NPV's of Scenario B = 0

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QB, Not to nitpick, but just

QB,
Not to nitpick, but just so you know, you are talking (I think) about the sum of the present value of the revenues from each year, not the "sum of the NPVs". For a given scenario, there is only one NPV. That's the "N" part -- Net.

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Not to nitpick,

but I'm going to nitpick. ;-)

Yes, I know. If I could draw a [Sigma sign] (NPV(t)), I would have or alternately, I guess I could have denoted NPV(Year 1) + NPV (2) + ....+ NPV (135).

Saying "Sum of the NPVs" is probably something I picked up at college. How would you have said it?

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I would have said "NPV".

I would have said "NPV". Again, for any given scenario (i.e., a set of cash flows over time), there is only one NPV, not more than one NPV to sum. You can talk about the PV (present value) of each year's cash flow, but the NPV is the sum of the those PVs, not a "sum of NPVs". Perhaps you're confusing the "Net" in "NPV" with the net effects WITHIN a given year (e.g., the net effect in a given year of the negative impact of a lower tax rate combined with the positive impact of higher GDP).

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Ahh...yes, I misunderstood your point....

yes, more correctly,

NPV = PV0 + PV1 + ...

brainfart on my part.

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no prob. Just a semantical

no prob. Just a semantical nitpick ;)

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Sent you the email.*

nm

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As a note, if my

As a note, if my recollection is correct, GWB first came up with his tax cut proposals (at least the 2001 cut; not sure about 2003) in 1999, when large surpluses were being predicted (albeit with some shaky assumptions) and (I think) before there were expectations of a recession. His ostensible rationale was that with all these surpluses, we better give the money back to the people, because "It's not the government's money. It's the people's money" (remember that from the 1999/2000 Bush campaign?) and if the anticipated surpluses aren't "given back" to the taxpayers, "Washington" would just spend it. The REAL rationale for his tax cut proposals was to ward off a challenge from super-tax-cutting Steve Forbes for the Republican nomination.

As president-elect and then early 2001 as president, Bush warned that there were signs that we might be heading toward an economic slowdown, and that we needed the tax cuts as "an insurance policy" to keep the recovery going.

That's the great thing about tax cuts. They are truly one-size-fits-all!

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