Wednesday Open Thread
"Dennis Kucinich is on a quest of his own. He sees flying saucers and he acts like one, too" -Alcee Hastings(D-FL) yesterday after the impeachment quote
This is an Open Thread.
Submitted by Ender on Wed, 2007-11-07 07:27
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SC Meeting in SL Tonight
Swords Crossed meeting tonight in Second Life from 5:30pm Pacific time until 7:00pm Pacific time.
There's some Lodi gossip to be had if you check her profile when you get there ;} I am having way too much fun.
Come early or late!
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
How can anyone who plays 2nd life not be a libertarian?
Beyond me...You know the politicians, when they finally get a clue, are going to start to go after these virtual world communities...You realize that, don't you?
Well when I joined Swords Crossed
There was no yellow bar option. There was barely a purple. But they let me stay anyway ;}
And yes, as I've said here before, SL is a libertarian world which does indeed unnerve some folks who play. "There oughta be a law" gets uttered every now and then.
The real world cops have already come down on SL gambling, faux-dollar banking, and "inappropriate" age play (although if you want to pretend you're a five year old in a virtual world, while I personally find that very very creepy, I'm not about to tell you you cannot). The SL lawyers are also are working on age-verification software, but we all know how easy that can be to circumvent. Why does the idea of sexuality bother people so?
(Cannot resist: forgot how to imbed. . . )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWEjvCRPrCo
But despite the restrictions, the community keeps growing. When I joined in May, online numbers ranged from 15K to 40K. Now, the range is usually 30K to 55K. Foreign participation continues to climb as well.
SL has also partnered with Google so that, get this, items in SL, from player profiles to products for sale to events and activities, will display in Google's search results. IBM and SL are partnering on the development of web-wide standards for avatars so that, ultimately, one avatar can wander the web at will.
Bleeding edge, I tell ya. Libertarian types are freewheeling and dreaming up incredible things.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
Hmmm...
My Account -->Edit-->Personal Information
Select Libertarian from Ideology drop down
Click Submit
Viola, Libertarian...
Um, two things
One, that video is not exactly G rated. . . lmao. Fair warning. But it makes me laugh every time. Men. . . ya gotta love 'em.
Two, I don't think "yellowface" works as well as my current handle ;} I prefer independence as a rule, anyway.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
Hacking and games came before porn...
sex only came on computer networks when women started logging on...
No, "yellowface" sounds like something from a 50s western...MelloYellow would work though...
There's a slight difference
between virtual life in video game where physical harm is impossible and real life. In other words you could turn it around and ask "why it is libertarians don't understand their politics only work in controlled fake settings like SL?"
:)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Bruce Fein thinks both Bush and Cheney should be impeached
and he is the one who wrote up up the articles of impeachment against Clinton for the Republicans.
Fein actually has a compelling case. The past few months, with all that has come to light, I now think the whole Unitary Executive underbelly is built around around a criminal conspiracy.
criminal conspiracy? n/t
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
a coup
It is the economy, stupid.
As in RICO
qui tacet consentire
I voted in the local elections yesterday
though I didn't know who was what and what the issues were. Yes, it was wrong :)
As protest I voted the Conservative line... But looking at the results today I realized that some people on the Conservative line were Democrats hehe.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Sandusky Elections
I left city council and school board blank. I'm not going to make my vote based on how many yard signs a candidate has. The Republican-backed municipal judge lost.
On the bright side our school levy passed and our city revitalization project vote passed, so on the balance, I'm a happy guy.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
These little elections
are so important, yet half the time I have no clue who these people are or what they stand for. I had to do some homework.
My husband went to the internet and found all their pictures and voted for the ones with the worst teeth. He figured they needed a job the most and would help fight for the little guy.
It is the economy, stupid.
I don't know about fighting for the little guy
but it would probably help them get better teeth.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
lol
It is the economy, stupid.
Mornin' .. Ron Paul fundraising update/baseline
ok! I now have a 24 hr period -- from 9:30 a.m. Eastern yesterday to today ... approx. $281,550 raised divided by 24 hours =
approx. $11,700 per hour
I'll check back next week to update -- will it accelerate, or decelerate?
Oh, wasn't Alcee Hastings impeached as a judge in Florida? I think he was up for a chairmanship, but that fact nixed it ... I think??
Politics is a clash of interests masquerading as a clash of principles. – Anonymous
yes something like that
So yeah they nixed his chairmanship because of that. Ron Paul and his supporters need to keep pushing for more fundraising. He can't just let it stagnate after a great result.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Paul is going to hit 15-18 million this quarter
go into the GOP primaries next year with the most cash on hand, unless Mitt writes himself a big check. Rudy is setting aside money for the General election, which is going to allow Paul to catch him.
There's a Boston Tea Party Money bomb being planned for December.
Less than 2% of Paul supporters are maxed out and he can potentially get up to another 100,000 new donors by next year.
The GOP pundits have no idea what's going to hit them. Watch intrade.com, don't watch the polls.
Paul is not going to win the GOP nomination but he is going to run as an indepedent ...
wow! I love the Boston Tea Party Money Bomb!!! brilliant!
Paul was on Tucker's show yesterday -- Tucker supported his Liberterian run in '88 --- to talk about his stunning fundraising, and Paul was, as Tucker said, so "Zen" about it - Tucker could'nt believe that he didn't even know who this person was who started this Guy Fawkes thing was, who raised $4 million! Paul said, "Yes, it very laissez faire" ...
Definitely the most fun and interesting candidate!
If he does run as an Indy, the wingnuts say it's gonna hurt Dems more b/c of his anti-war stance, mostly -- and I think they're right -- what do you think?
Politics is a clash of interests masquerading as a clash of principles. – Anonymous
Oh, please
Ron Paul isn't going to win anything.
He's this year's Howard Dean. He'll cause a big stir and be pumped up by the media as the Latest Thing. And then after Iowa and New Hampshire they'll send him off with a nice obituary.
His support is spread out over 50 states and not concentrated anywhere -- like, oh say, Iowa or NH or even SC. Dean had the same problem.
Besides, when was the last time Republicans nominated someone who wasn't toeing the party line? Goldwater maybe?
qui tacet consentire
Pat Robertson endorses Giuliani
hahahaha check this out!
I am surprised!
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Wow...
...musta been one helluva donation to the CBN by the Giuliani campaign.
Pat Robertson is a white version of Al Sharpton. No morals, really... .just using their "reverend" title as a means to an end - gaining a seat at the table of power.
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein
he is shrewd
He is making a bet and hopes it pays off.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
talk about selling your soul!
the fiscal conservatives sold out, and now the social conservatives?
Quite a coup for Rudy, no doubt! but it reeks
Politics is a clash of interests masquerading as a clash of principles. – Anonymous
this is a huge coup for Rudy
regardless it might prevent Social Conservative fissure from happening in the event of Rudy's nomination. That would be huge for GOP.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
we'll see! where are James Dobson, and Tony Perkins on Rudy?
Politics is a clash of interests masquerading as a clash of principles. – Anonymous
They would rather eat ground glass
Or so they say.
They are making noises about supporting a third-party candidate, but I'll believe it when I see it.
If the third-party thing does materialize it would likely be someone like Roy Moore running on the Constitution Party ticket because that party already has ballot access in nearly every state and wouldn't have to spent a pile of money on petition drives.
qui tacet consentire
as far as I know
Dobson endorsed Mitt Romney... Not sure about Perkins. Also I don't know what they would do if Rudy got the nod. With the Robertson endorsement they might be paving the way for holding the coalition in '08.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Gah! what's next? the NRA endorsing Gun Control Rudy? lol
Politics is a clash of interests masquerading as a clash of principles. – Anonymous
hehehehe
let's not get too crazy :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
you're right! unlike Robertson, the NRA actually has some
credibility at stake, and a reputatin to maintain! hehe :)
Politics is a clash of interests masquerading as a clash of principles. – Anonymous
Have you seen the CNN & WaPo reporting on Rudy
making campaign claims that turn out to be false?
Apparently Rudy is WAY ahead in the Pinocchio rankings at the moment.
Finally some of the MSM is starting to actually look at the claims Rudy's making. 'bout time too.
for gods sakes
this is pretty minor stuff. It's called campaigning and everyone quotes questionable statistics.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
True
You can't expect people to remember things like how many wives they've had and how many of them were cousins. As long as he's within two or three it's probably OK.
qui tacet consentire
Guiliani is the most dangerous candidate of all
He will be like Bush--appointing unqualified people because of cronyism or loyalty. Ex. Kerik
He has hired all neocons as his advisers responsible for the mess.
And he is a authoritarian, who would further limit civil liberties.
The Manhattan Mussolini
But at least Mussolini got the trains to run on time -- or so the myth goes.
qui tacet consentire
That may be the thing that annoys me the most about the neocons
they didn;t even manage to get the trains on time. How lame is that? To sell out all principle and the very last shred of morality and to still be so god damned incompetent.
It's the purple-nurple after the waterboarding.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
That is so hypocritical
It makes it so obvious these religious right is just a Republican hack organization and not about pro-life issues.
Anyway, if you are a real Christian, you follow Jesus teachings who told us you cannot go to heaven unless you do good to the least of our bretheren--and the party that does that as a policy is the Democratic Party.
there is plenty of disagreement
in Christian circles on what it takes to get to heaven. Sorry, but your interpretation is far from prevalent.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Jesus very clearly said
that there is no room in Heaven for Republicans.
It was right after that stuff about the camel and the eye of a needle but it got edited out by the Vatican.
qui tacet consentire
Jesus is the Son of God
but His Father is GOP all the way including philosophy like "kill em all and let me sort em out".
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Joshua was definitely a neo-con
He said God told him to destroy Jericho so he blasted the city and killed everyone in it -- except for a friendly prostitute.
qui tacet consentire
King David was kinda like
Giuliani in many ways :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Very true
David lusted after Bathsheba and got her knocked up even though she was married to Uriah the Hittite, so David ordered Uriah to the war front and told his commander, Joab, to make sure that Uriah was in a battle where he was sure to be killed.
Yep, sounds just like Rudy.
qui tacet consentire
but David had his own personal 9/11
when he killerized Goliath. :)
To be fair David was a great King. It's funny but his son fights him and gets killed (Rudy's son is not his biggest fan?). But regardless Rudy would only profit to be compared to King David. And as Pat Robertson's endorsement suggests, King Rudy would be a great soldier of God.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
The Bible Quote here
Matthew 25:31-46 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Which basically means
that when you vote against SCHIP, you vote against Jesus.
Makes sense to me.
Why are Republicans against Jesus?
qui tacet consentire
Republicans against Jesus
That has a good ring to it... I could go for that! :)
Some of us Republicans are atheists, you know. I care what the Bible says... uhhh... why?
And no, I don't understand how you can be a die-hard Christian and at the same time be in favor of capitalism. Every attempt I've seen so far at an explanation seems fishy at best.
Is there moral code
to Capitalism other than just make lots of money.
I totally agree that die hard Christians and die hard capitalists seem morally diametrically opposed.
As an aetheist do you see any ethical cohesion in pure capitalism.
It is the economy, stupid.
this is the most
atheist bunch of right wingers in one place that I've ever seen! And there is just a couple of us :)
Whether you are a die-hard Christian or a CINO, you still pick and choose your Bible priorities. Conservative Christians do it, and Liberal Christians just as well... It's like selective blindness.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
My goodness! Imagine that!
It is almost as if the religious folks are just looking for something to tell them that they HAVE to do that very thing that they wanted to do anyways!
You can't argue with people who hear God's voice telling them that they are right.
the major conservative evangelical teaching on going to heaven
is related to John 3:16 and "The people who get to go to heaven are the ones who “get right with God” by beginning a relationship with Him through His Son Jesus Christ."
Isn't works oriented stuff predominately in Catholic theology?
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Yep
One major difference between Catholics and Protestants is exactly that -- the belief in the redemptive power of good works.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
That's always confused me -
I mean, I know that the Bible is loose enough to carry multiple interpretations, and I know that the tenets of the Protestant reformation had to do with some pretty high-level theology, but one of the clearest and least ambiguous passages in the Gospels is this, from Matthew 25
.
I mean, it's a concrete list of acts required for salvation. How in the world does that get so easily skimmed over?
I think the Catholics got this one right.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
to be fair if you try to apply logic
the catholic view here is more logical. You are getting a reward for something much more concrete.
Though that something concrete is incredibly simplistic and used for evil purposes.
Then again I don't really care for either interpretation or the entire book :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Ha, me neither -
I for one welcome our new
insectatheist overlords.In seriousness I doubt that'll be much better, but at least we won't be quibbling over ancient Sanskrit.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Confuses me too
I find it mildly confusing as well, the whole "salvation through being saved" concepts, and I've really made a serious effort to grok it. I think the concept is just a tad too philosophical for me to really grasp. I can understand the Protestant view that works alone do not bring salvation, and the originating backlash against the abuse of such works in the Church at the time of the Reformation, but to eliminate works entirely in a salvic (sp) sense when so much of Christianity is outwardly focused on how one treats others. . . no, I just cannot internalize the Protestant argument that good works come from salvation but do not lead to salvation.
My rational side says it was a philosophical tangle made necessary by the circumstances of the Reformation, a justification/explanation that has merely grown more detailed and complex over time because it could not be discarded. But, I think religion is best left in the slightly hazy internal personal world anyway. Like love, it does not bear up well under intense rational scrutiny ;}
Wiki is a great source for some detail on this, btw. Following the links to each flavor of Protestantism can be quite interesting.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
Yes, but
It takes more than saying you believe and showing up on Sunday. You have to live your life as a Christian. You have to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
qui tacet consentire
Moot discussion...
...there's no such thing as heaven.
Life your life the best you can and attain the highest level of happiness you can while you're here. You only get one go 'round.
Surround yourself with good people, and maximize your potential in everything you do.
Die with no regrets. At that point, it won't matter to you that there is no "afterlife"... because you would've lived fully in this one.
.... and if there is an afterlife.... bonus! ;-)
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein
Excellent advice!
I for one intend to hit that dirt with a huge smile on my face.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
since there is probably no afterlife
I do not understand why more agnostics/atheists are not freezing themselves upon death. The chance of revival in the future might be small but it's better than 0.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
For me....
....it would be an issue of cost.
Also.... No desire to come back then. I'm ok with living a full life, passing on my values to my kids, and then becoming worm food.
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein
What happens when conservative writers get mugged
by their conservative publishers?
(via C&L)
"Five authors have sued the parent company of Regnery Publishing, a Washington imprint of conservative books, charging that the company deprives its writers of royalties by selling their books at a steep discount to book clubs and other organizations owned by the same parent company. “It suddenly occurred to us that Regnery is making collectively jillions of dollars off of us and paying us a pittance.” He added: “Why is Regnery acting like a Marxist cartoon of a capitalist company?”
The answer is: They hire lawyers and sue. Does that mean they are closet liberals?
Was mAnn Coulter one of them?
It would be great if she were forced to go on "strike".
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein
What?????
You mean they hired evil trial lawyers?
And they are alleging that an American company has manipulated the market in order to cheat people?
Say it isn't so!!!!
Next you'll be telling me they are forming their own union.
qui tacet consentire
When things go wrong--Republicans rely on govt, lawyers
Kos had a post yesterday---
His grandparents in law---are avid Republicans and would spite him e-mailing him GOP propaganda --then when his grandfather got very sick and needed help for his medicines---they wanted the government to help.
Even Republican Virginia Loudon County --now besiege with foreclosures---suddenly turn to Democrats to help them.
Republicans rail against government, lawyers, labor unions etc --- and talk about personal responsibility --- until they get into a problem --sickness, exploitation, bankruptcy, --- then they want the government to help.
Reminds me of Bush
filing that nuisance lawsuit against Enterprise car rental company over a minor fender-bender and got a couple thousand dollars.
qui tacet consentire
This cracks me up
Irony, like sweet mana, falling from the skies.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Lately Digby has been writing over at
Campaign for America's Future. Today's post is called "The Right Wing Relativists"
and is worth a read.
School vouchers a losing issue
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7392263
Some money quotes from Patrick Byrne....
I'm thinking
Voucher supporter Patrick Byrne...called the referendum a "statewide IQ test" that Utahns failed.
that's not a great way to sell vouchers to Utah voters.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
The words of an exasperated man....
but I'm sure he feels it's past the selling stage.
That last two sentances said it all:
"The fortune that I'm making is all going toward educating lower income and especially African-American and Hispanic kids," Byrne said. "So this is not a terribly big deal to me."
He might be able to get away with saying that in Utah, but if he said that in most states, he'd get the crap beaten out of him or worse.
This is America. We are one big melting pot and we should be proud of that. Treat your neighbor as you would your own. Or does owning a large internet close out shop (I've never bought anything from Overstock.com & now will make sure not to) allow you to be a racist asshole and give you a soapbox to shout to the world about your immoral convictions?
I think you may have misunderstood?
He's not upset about spending his money on educating lower income kids, he's doing it deliberately
:
The full story at that link suggests he probably could use some lessons in sensitivity but it sounds like his heart is basically in the right place.
By the way, he made all kinds of weird accusations against other companies as a CEO -- check out his wikipedia entry.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Thanks. I did mis-interpert it.
Well, the guy does seem to have a habit of making
poorly worded or insensitive statements. He should probably be more careful with how he phrases his arguments.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
America is looking blueish
Analysis from the Master
Dems shine bright on election day.
Most interesting that the fabled new wedge issue, immigration, and the invasion of the scary brown people, wasn't the GOP's savior as had been predicted.
And of great interest to me and my one note song on the sub-prime market mess was folks are very jittery about the economy. All those for sale signs, the crazy price of oil, and mortgage write downs, hidding lost assest off the balance sheets...... well people aren't stupid. What's next a falling dollar..... oh wait.
Buy Stocks Win the Lotto
The pundints can claim all they want to on the TeeVee about how fab the market is, the global economy is the Best Ever. Still regular folks in local communities buy gas and groceries, and there is little left over for menial luxuries unless they put in on the credit card.
It is the economy, stupid.
A veto proof S-CHIP bill?
TalkingPointsMemo says they are just about there.
If that happens, will Bush veto it anyhow just to show he's (a punk) boss? We'll see.