So much for the big tent: GOP tosses libertarians to the curb
It's no secret that spending under Bush has soared , despite (or maybe because of) Congress being controlled by the GOP for much of his term. Federal control of education was solidified with NCLB, the Medicare part D bill was passed, government continued to heavily subsidize oil and alternative energy companies, the disastrous drug war continued unchecked, intrusive surveillance of dubious legality became commonplace. Our foreign policy switched from strong defense to spreading democracy, and the war in Iraq has sucked in billions of dollars and cost thousands of American lives in what has become an effort at nation building while fighting AQI and sectarian strife. Republicans made their contempt for libertarian principles quite clear through their actions even while they continued to pay lip service to try to retain their votes. Now, even that charade is ending.
Ron Paul is probably not the ideal libertarian candidate. He is oddly fixated on immigration, leans pro-life, and has a knack for irritating political opponents. Nevertheless, his longshot candidacy has attracted real money and attention, and he commands significant support online. The most likely explanation is that libertarian voters see him as the best candidate among those running. Given that he has (let us be honest) no chance of winning, and that most polls show the general election leaning Dem but still close, one would think the frontrunning GOP Presidential candidates would want to avoid alienating Paul supporters. One would be wrong. The other candidates, particularly Giuliani , have used heated criticism of Paul to appeal to the hawkish wing of the GOP. Now, this probably seems like safe electoral politics -- what are libertarians going to do in the general election, vote for Hillary? Giuliani is betting that at worst they'll vote for a third party candidate and so won't hurt him come November.
There are two problems with this analysis. First, libertarians actually are voting D in greater numbers, probably mostly because they are disillusioned with R politics. Second, the number of people who are sympathetic to Paul's positions is much higher than the number of vocal supporters he commands. Particularly when it comes to Iraq, polls indicate that the GOP frontrunners are outside the mainstream of American opinion. So when Paul is attacked for holding positions with which a large chunk of Americans agree, it has the potential to dissuade moderates as well as libertarians from voting Republican.
Ron Paul is attempting to tap into the online activism that propelled Dean to initial success before he imploded (with the help of the media) after Iowa. At the same time, Republicans are trying to counter the lead in internet politics that liberals enjoy over conservatives. One would think that there is a natural match here -- Republicans can increase their online share, get the Ron Paul supporters involved in their sites and then appeal for their votes/cash in the general. One would, once again, be wrong. Instead of trying to use the Paul phenomenon to their advantage, to grow the Republican presence online, the largest conservative blog (Redstate) has actually banned all promotion of Paul by new (<6 months) posters. This is a site on which GOP Presidential candidate Fred Thompson has posted repeatedly, upon which many GOP members of Congress post repeatedly. Leon (an editor at RS and a former contributer here) had a revealing anecdote :
Now, the Ames straw poll is a Republican event. Ron Paul holds lots of positions that Republicans like. So you would have expected his supporters to shout *those* things at us - "Ron Paul wants to eliminate wasteful spending!" and the like. Wrong. I heard "Ron Paul wants to abolish the IRS!" twice. The rest of the things I heard were exclusively leftist anti-war slogans - "Iraq didn't attack us on 9/11!" "Ron Paul will get our troops out of Iraq!" "No WMDs in Iraq!" It's like these people didn't even *know* how to talk in a way that doesn't tick off mainstream Republicans.
Of course, these "leftist anti-war slogans" are simply factual statements -- yet expressing them ticks off mainstream Republicans. I don't mean to overstate this, there is certainly a legitimate point Leon has about framing your argument for your intended audience. However, his perspective that Paul and his supporters should do a better job of appealing to Republican principles is fundamentally flawed -- Paul doesn't need the GOP for his campaign, which has always been about making a statement rather than winning; instead, the GOP needs Paul, to avoid losing a significant block of voters. RS should be making an effort to emphasize and discuss the points of agreement between Paul and these "mainstream Republicans" -- their actual decision is shortsighted and will hurt the GOP.
So, whither libertarians? Hillary is not an appealing candidate, I quite understand, and neither is Giuliani. It's entirely possible that if these two represent their respective parties that libertarians will have no appetizing choice and will vote third party or abstain. Or, they may have to make a decision as to the lesser of two evils, and one suspects that an increasing number of them will grit their teeth and vote D as a way to vote against R. The bigger picture here, with apologies to the hardcore libertarians, is what will happen to those moderates who are sympathetic to some of Paul's positions, and see the way he is treated by the GOP candidates and by the largest online Republican blog. They may well conclude that the GOP is hostile to their views and vote accordingly.
The GOP will regret tossing libertarians to the curb. The big tent is fracturing, the coalition is breaking apart, and the upcoming election and beyond will show the cost of Republicans finally openly expressing their disdain for the libertarian principles they pretended to support in the past but rarely did.

Comments :
I love the fact that RedState banned any talk of Paul.
The message Republicans AND Democrats should be taking from Paul's money-raising and Internet popularity, particularly among young people, is that Americans want out of Iraq. They don't want any bull**** "phased withdrawal" or "residual force." They want out, the sooner the better.
The fact that the leading candidates from both parties don't get this only fuels Paul's candidacy.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
I love the fact
that dkos purged itself of those speaking positively of Ron Paul way before RedState banned the talk of Paul (and only for new members, not *any* like you lie about).
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Well, DKos is a Democratic blog, by definition.
Ron Paul is a Republican candidate.
And after being embarrassed in The New York Times this morning, RedState apparently rethought their ban
.
Love it.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
wonder if I should go hang at Redstate
and comment a bit.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Yeah, "Paultards" should go a long way
towards recapturing that segment of their audience.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
And comments have to be in haiku form.
Still, they invited them back.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
Just an excuse to mock them more, I think,
as shown by lines like "The creativity to spot a Zionist conspiracy around every corner has to be worth something, too."
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Yes, I think both blogs have a policy
against promoting candidates from the opposing party. Only one of those blogs made an official policy against promoting a candidate from their own party.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
As you can imagine,
I've given this quite a bit of thought. I think you've summed up pretty well.
I definitely do not see myself voting Dem for the foreseeable future, and may repeat 2004 when I voted for the LP candidate.
I'm back and forth on Rudy. Fiscally a good record, but cut from the same foreign policy cloth as GWB, and the fact that he doesn't have a clue when Ron Paul speaks about blowback and such is a big concern.
Fred Thompson is about the only guy I could definitely see myself voting for on the Republican side. I've liked his thoughts on Federalism and small government, but haven't watched the debates and need to learn more about him.
__________________________
And FWIW, I don't hold the GOP's non-acceptance or disdain for Paul against individual candidates (although it does make me think less of Rudy when I've seen their interactions.)
Thanks for the perspective,
it's always a little dangerous to speculate on what a particular group will do when one isn't a member of that group and so it's nice to hear from the libertarians on this. I need to check out Thompson more myself, he's been out of politics so long that I don't recall many of his accomplishments offhand.
Are there any Dems that libertarians would consider? Maybe if matched up against a particularly bad Republican?
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Definitely maybe....
It doesn't seem very realistic that he'd carry the nomination, but Bill Richardson seemed pretty good on the fiscal side. Kind of a nanny stater on the civil side (but that probably matters more as a governor than as a president.)
No way on the three front-runners.
Rudy is the second coming of Cheney...
... when it comes to Executive power and foreign policy.
According to reports in two New York papers this week, Norman Podhoertz is one of his key foreign policy advisers.
Just what we need... another warmonger.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
I hate to say it but I think that Cheney is somewhat more
reserved than Rudy. Cheney has that inner fire. Rudy wears his on his shoulder like a chip. Cheney seems to believe in himself and works behind the scenes. Rudy gets all hot headed and works out in the open making sure that everyone knows he's passionate about something.
He isn't more passionate. Rudy is less concerned with being mature in public.
I can relate.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
It is Christmas
We agree twice in one day.
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
We should just stop right here.
It is unlikely to get better than this.
Goodbye.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
So pessimistic!
Ya gotta believe, man...
Maybe you're a Rush fan? That would be a big point of agreement =)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Oh god, I HATE Rush.
The band and Limbaugh.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
you don't find Limbaugh sexy?
wtf...
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
No.
Only under-aged girls from the Dominican Republic find Rush "sexy." And that's only because they're paid to find him "sexy."
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
They'd also have to be drugged
qui tacet consentire
Rudy really fought the NYC socialists hard
Definitely worth a good look. Thompson just speaks well but I am not sure if there is any substance there. Giuliani actually proved himself.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
What did Rudy prove though?
I agree with you about Thompson. But I don't see Rudy as a fiscal conservative, he's not a social conservative. Right now his biggest liability is that he's going around TRYING to prove he is the facade he's building his image to be.
I don't think he's that person. I also have little faith in someone who feels they have to manufacture themselves and their image as much as Rudy does. Frankly, it reminds me of Hillary.
Rudy transformed the largest city in US
Perhaps that is nothing to you, but most people were and are impressed by his incredible competence and fiscal conservatism.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
He made the trains run on time
qui tacet consentire
Rudy transformed the largest US city into what??
First of all, Rudy really exploited and took advantage of the situation following 9/11 for his own ends and agenda, exploiting emotions that were already quite high. Another thing that Giuliani did was to give the firemen 10-year-old communication radios that didn't even work, and, he used the World Trade Center itself as the communications center. If that wasn't vicious and sneaky of him, I don't know what it was. Many, many firemen and average run of the mill people were pissed off at Giuiliani for what he did.
Frankly, Giuliani would be a very dangerous person to have as President of the United States.
Thompson just speaks
Well, he has a manly deep voice, so I guess in that narrow sense, he "speaks well"... but as far as expressing thoughts and ideas with spoken word, Thompson has been sorely lacking.
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
is there any evidence of libertarians now voting more Dem
than GOP? There is no question that more Libertarians are voting Dem but actually more than 50%?
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Probably not
Here are 2006 numbers
from Cato.
All the more reason for Republicans to want to keep them in the fold, I would think. We'll see what 2008 brings =)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
yeah shows still overwhelmingly Republican...
If I was GOP I would go the more "libertarian" route even if at the very least they started taking "smaller govt" mantra more seriously.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I believe the Party is...
...seeing a shift albeit slowly this way with the decreasing influence that social conservatives are wielding in the party.
This shift is very welcome news to conservatives like me!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I sure hope so
We don't need anything like Ron Paul style libertarianism, but GOP cannot be a mainly socially conservative party (primary emphasis) and survive.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
excellent diary, Brendan
You've said it all very well.
I wonder if my strident posting has helped shape your POV...hehehe.
And while libertarians have definitely shifted toward the Dems since 2000, I wouldn't expect a large gushing of support....especially for Hillary. Obama would get more and Richardson even more still. Edwards would actually do worse than Hillary IMO. He's makes Hillary look laissez-faire!
Kerry really closed the gap compared to Gore with the libertarian-leaning vote (he got my vote) and that was mainly because of the war. The current state will still give the Dem candidate more libertarian votes than Gore got but I don't know that it will be enough.
Hillary will win because of the purple vote...not the yellow one.
This is the worst election in my voting life for libertarians.
Given the fact that the GOP has gone so, so far to the right,
it's not at all surprising that the GOP has pretty much kicked the Libertarians to the curb. It's just yet another indication of the fact that the GOP brooks no dissent what.so.ever
Due Respect Brendan...
...and we've known each other for a while now...
I think your characterization that The GOP is tossing libertarians to the curb and that libertarians actually are migrating D in greater numbers is largely a mischaracterization.
Sine 2000 libertarians have been and remain to be a large caucus in the party sans, obviously, anti-war libertarians. In fact the Libertarian Party Co-sponsored this years Conservative Leadership Conference
As for RedState - You know full well being a Front Page contributor and moderator of a community site can be extremely challenging to keep it functioning and flowing properly and tamping down spam! Also:
1) Its there bandwidth and there rules.
2) RedState isn't censoring Ron Paul or his message
What I find sad is the fact that true Ron Paul supporters have yet to figure out that most of their on and off line activism has come from Liberals doing everything they can to derail the Republican Primary in an attempt to guarantee a Democrat White House victory. That’s a shame really, not to take anything away from the incredible job these true supporters have done…
…but let’s be completely honest here! Those who have been paying attention for more than a year or two can spot the tactics being used here and who's behind said tactics. No one has adequately explained to me why I and others see activists on street corners putting up signs that support Ron Paul and Democrat Party candidate’s signs at the same time???
You also touched on which candidate libertarians would/should support other than Ron. In my opinion Fred Thompson is someone libertarians should take a closer look at! He's running on a more "Federalist" or "States Rights" platform than any other GOP candidate. That fact does and will appeal to conservative libertarians in which there are many constituents. Obviously not all libertarians are going to gravitate toward Fred but he holds true to more of the issues that libertarians hold dear than big government Republicans and Democrats.
Anyway I hope my tone in this post didn't come off as hostile it wasn't intended that way!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Do you seriously believe
this:
What I find sad is the fact that true Ron Paul supporters have yet to figure out that most of their on and off line activism has come from Liberals doing everything they can to derail the Republican Primary in an attempt to guarantee a Democrat White House victory
It is the economy, stupid.
Yes! I wrote it... n/t
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Methinks there is some projection here
Remember false support of candidates (like the Green Party candidate the Republican Party funded in the Pennsylvania Senate Race) seems like a natural strategy to some.
And of course, it is completely unprovable and vague so we can put it down as faith-based.
Of course, the idea that even a minority of Republicans would be for the only candidate against the war in Iraq and vote based on that is not an idea worth consideration.
All that is missing is the statement that voting for Ron Paul supports the terrorists.
Methinks same.
It is the economy, stupid.
Maybe the types of Paul supporters who
tended to join and participate at Redstate recently are the types who are trying to undermine the Republican mainstream candidates. It's possible, and I shouldn't discount it -- maybe trolls are targeting Redstate posing as Paul supporters.
But that sort of begs the question, doesn't it, as to why Redstate isn't attracting the genuine Paul supporters, of which there really are many, from my observations. I don't think Redstate is a friendly environment for libertarians right now, and even if that's mostly because trolls provoked a reaction from the management I think it has the potential to hurt the GOP -- not just from this episode, of course, but particularly if Redstate's stance is reflective of Republican attitudes in general (which it admittedly may not be). Just my opinion, naturally, and I'm on the outside looking in so perhaps I've got it wrong, although you might ask some libertarians what they think for more perspective.
By the way, I certainly recall when Redstate was more friendly towards liberatarian principles -- I wrote a diary there advocating legalizing marijuana and the response was mostly (not entirely) positive.
One of the libertarians here also mentioned that Fred was probably his favorite Republican candidate.
(Your tone certainly didn't strike me as hostile, I thought yours was a good post making points that hadn't been raised here yet -- I mean, if we all just agreed with each other this wouldn't be any fun!)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Being a community driven...
...website it may not be the most hospitable place for Ron Paul Supporters right now due to the enormous amounts of spam being spewed forth recently (the community complained and the management listened) but just like liberal trolls who go to RedState and post a diary full of talking points and curse words and go off to DKos to write their "I got banned from RedState" diary to wear as their "badge of honor" so will be the fate of the Paul spammers.
I've found that we (at RedState) have always welcomed posters to debate from every political stripe that don't come to our house and pee on the floor!!!
As long as someone respects the rules and isn't there to play games, troll, "concern troll" or other nonsense they are welcome - they will obviously get bombarded by the community ,much like I would on a Liberal board, to defend their views.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Ummmm.....
Overall RedState has a pretty low tolerance for disagreement and is blam happy as far as I can tell.
Valerie Wilson was working on intelligence to see how far Iran's nuclear program was in it's develop. Blammmmmm!
It is the economy, stupid.
That's because you tend to...
...believe myth over reality!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Heh
Look out, you'll get the "I'm rubber, you're glue!" bit started if you're not careful ;-)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
That was suposed to be a ;0) not an !...
...thanks for pointing that out
my apologies missliberties :0)
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
RedState a tolerant, welcoming website?!? Hmmmmm..
don't know about that, Steven.
I've visited RedState afew times, and found it to be one of the most intolerant sites on the blogosphere. They do not seem to brook any dissent