The Choking Grasp: Modernity and the Pyrrhic Conquest of Nature
(originally posted at DailyKos, reposted here for a more deliberative discussion)
Modernity and the Pyrrhic Conquest of Nature
The industrial revolution and capitalism’s overthrow of the millennia-old feudal order transformed humanity’s tools radically, just as the subsequent discovery of petroleum catalyzed a manifold augmentation of their power. Thermodynamics holds that we get nothing for free, but here was a relatively cheap, and, at the time, boundless source of energy. These unparalleled events set in motion the development of modernity: uniquely among living things, humans were freed from the need to establish balance with the immediate ecosystem; a particular environment’s carrying capacity now correlated with the quality of infrastructure far more than any natural characteristics. The population exploded, and civilization became a force rivaling nature.
Financing this extravagance has meant borrowing extensively from an energy "inheritance" accumulated over the eons. Yet, like any inheritance, this one is finite; at some point, we’re going to have to reconcile with this inescapable fact. And it won’t be easy. Modern life would be utterly impossible without oil, which, apart from energy and transportation applications, is used to produce plastics, fertilizers, and a myriad of industrial chemicals. Even a cursory glance at our surroundings reveals the ubiquity of these things, and that should give us severe pause. Alternatives can be synthesized, and it would be a mistake to underestimate humanity’s creative faculties or capacity for technological advance, but, invariably, these are energy intensive. Western civilization’s infatuation perpetual growth is driving us headlong into a collision with entropy.
Darwin’s theory of natural selection proves definitively that we, and all life or organized complexity, evolve gradually from simple beginnings; this elegant truth revolutionized the study of biology and shattered religious creation fables—we are, first and foremost, animals: stardust that our genes shaped into survival machines. Taken together with advances in other areas of science, such as physics, chemistry and geology, a far more comprehensive understanding of the planet’s ecosystem has taken hold: rather than a static orb, Earth is a dynamic system with countless—often tenuous—interrelationships. However, the prevailing ideology and culture, as is often the case, lags behind. Inexorable demand for growth at all costs animates modern capitalist economies, accelerating resource extraction with little regard for consequences. Ecological effects of economic activity are routinely regarded as factors outside production cost, thus, prices—those all-important signals of market discipline—rarely reflect the expense of attenuating harmful consequences. Reinforced by the Abrahamic theological tradition, which holds that God gave humans dominion over the Earth, nature is perceived by a great many people and our most powerful institutions—corporations and nation-states—as something that humanity has subjugated, and can properly exploit.
Reevaluation
This pattern is deeply flawed and unsustainable: its metrics—GDP, inflation, interest rates, unemployment, productivity—make no reference to what is consumed but not replenished; its structural inertia and perversely myopic incentives preempt long term thinking and planning; it styles damage to the biosphere’s life-support capacity "negative externalities" rather than an inherent consideration of each transaction; its hierarchical centralization prioritizes homogeneity over nature’s web of interdependent variance; and its insatiable thirst for "cheap" fossil-fuels sows the seeds of our destruction. If civilization is not to be an evolutionary dead end, humanity must challenge these fundamental assumptions, devising a mode of economic and social organization more immanent in nature—that operates in congruence with its principles rather than trying to supplant them. Our visible disruption of the natural world has forced most governments to enact regulations to limit damage, and virtually all mainstream political parties—conservative, liberal, or social democratic—have environmental planks of some form. But these are half-measures. The greatest challenges humanity faces today—resource depletion, climate change, environmental degradation, overpopulation, widespread poverty and the threat of nuclear omnicide—are global and will require our combined efforts to resolve. Solutions founded upon invalid premises are useless, however, and it is therefore paramount that we understand the character and scope of the problems.
At the heart of our dilemma is our societal energy generation and dissemination system. Projected consumption figures vary widely, depending on the degree of conservation, efficiency, technological advance, prices (which are themselves projections, thereby introducing second order errors), population growth, and economic development factored into the models. Notwithstanding, it’s fairly clear the increases are non-linear, resulting in a doubling of current demand by 2030, even as energy return on energy investment (EROEI) for fossil fuels decreases. Discoveries of new energy reserves have been decreasing for several years, and some analysts claim that we are on the threshold of peak oil production. History suggests that voluntary reversal of the consumption trend is exceedingly unlikely. Competition for scare resources has animated our species’ frequent descents into barbarism from the inception of civilization to the present ill-conceived misadventure in Iraq. There have been many attempts to rationalize the war—each more implausible than the next—but if we approach the question with the same level of skepticism and empirical rigor exercised in scientific endeavors, the answer is fairly plain: oil. Not access to oil, or profit from oil, though those are important ancillary concerns, but effective control of oil. This is no great revelation. Would we have invaded Iraq if their national export were soy beans? I marvel at the intellectually dishonest back flips required to answer affirmatively.
Petroleum coexists as our most important energy resource on one hand, and a "stupendous source of strategic power" on the other. This duality has not gone unnoticed. Since 1945, the focus of American foreign policy in the Middle East has been maintenance of regional hegemony—through assent of client states and surrogates when possible, but by direct application of military force wherever it has been deemed to be in the "national interest." Barring unforeseen and virtually instantaneous innovations in energy production technology, the transition from hydrocarbons to a renewable/fusion-based economy will likely feature a plethora of resource conflicts. Widespread global perception of the U.S. as an aggressive, belligerent power operating in open contempt of international law, combined a weakened non-proliferation framework (which had the ABM treaty, rescinded in 2002, as its cornerstone), may drive countries with a surplus of oil revenue to invest in the development of indigenous nuclear deterrents. Rapid climatic change has the potential to displace tens of millions through famine, disease, drought, flooding, and other extreme weather events, adding more fuel to this already volatile mix. Several of global warming’s predicted effects, like melting polar icecaps, lead to runaway positive feedback loops (seawater absorbs solar radiation whereas glaciers reflect it) and cascading repercussions (inflow of large amounts of fresh water into the North Atlantic could slow thermohaline circulation, wreaking havoc with established climates). And then, there are the profound ethical conundrums.
Successful action on global warming demands sharp reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. Unfortunately, those correlate strongly with industrialization, a well-established prerequisite for economic development. It’s the pinnacle of self-serving hypocrisy to deny a majority of the world’s people, more than a billion of whom live in abject poverty, the opportunity to pursue the path to a better life – especially when we have been burning fossil-fuels with wanton abandon for more than a century. The double standard is enormous and revolting: though Americans represent only 5% of the global population, we consume 25% of its total energy production and emit a corresponding level of CO2. Contrary to what one may initially assume, this is not entirely attributable to the size of our economy: Europe and Japan, which have comparable GDP/capita, consume roughly half the energy/capita as the U.S. (as does California). Our desire to assuage these disparities must, nevertheless, be tempered by the understanding that the biosphere cannot sustain the prospective resource consumption or greenhouse emissions of an even moderately developed Third World (if it follows the traditional model). What’s needed, then, is a true paradigm shift: a technological revolution that frees us from fossil fuel dependency, paralleled by a radical reevaluation of our attitudes toward energy. Such change is inevitable. Either we will engage in systemic efforts to bring it about, or it will be precipitated by catastrophe.
Empathy
Any cooperative social venture, particularly one on a global scale, is contingent upon empathy—and cultivating empathy requires more than factually understanding what others endure. Humans have cognitive biases toward our own senses and memories. This dilemma is compounded by unearned license, whose preservation creates vested interests in not understanding, leading to displacement: the deprived are faulted and disparaged for their condition, which, they are told, is the result of indolence, or immorality—not exploitation; the prevalence of a social arrangement thereby becomes justification for its continuance. As Emma Goldman once said, "the most violent element in society is ignorance." To empathize, we need to broaden our emotional and experiential palettes; through our connections to others, we do this. Empathy allows us to discover the same adversities in other people, rendering mere awareness into tangible solidarity.
Our economic system, unfortunately, commodifies wants and necessities; the myriad of ways in which we make each other’s lives possible vanish into scalar abstraction: prices. This occludes recognition of relationships that would, in past societies, have been self-evident, atomizing and isolating us. It is difficult, for instance, to fully appreciate the adversities faced by farmers, and even harder to actually do something, for we no longer interact daily with those who grow our food. Capitalism ingrains from childhood the "rational" virtue of avarice—that we should amass as much property as possible not only to maximize personal benefit, but to produce the best societal outcome. Little wonder that, bolstered by this masterwork of self-serving apology, many internalize and live this ethic, guiltlessly. For the vast majority, however, the "invisible hand" is Vader’s choking grasp.
Though even here, in his supposed inner sanctum, the past yields ample evidence that we are not slaves to the basest facets of our nature; the abolitionist, suffrage, labor, civil rights and anti-war movements are quintessential models of organized popular sovereignty’s immense power—ones we should replicate. After all, the recognized International Labor Day, May 1st, commemorates events that took place in the United States.
Progressive politics can only flourish—indeed, are only possible—to the degree that civil society and empathy are vibrant. We'd do well to heed that lesson, and even better to actualize it.
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Comments :
This originally got all of 8 comments at dK.
Hopefully my blatherings will find a wider audience here.
Cheers.
"Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence." - George Orwell
Maybe friday
No way I'm tackling this today.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
The reasoning is fine
but you might want to back off on the wordiness. A lot of the sentences could be pared down and simplified. Right now it reads a lot like a graduate paper, which will put off a lot of people. Of course this is assuming you want the piece to be accessable.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Why would I NOT want it to be accessible?
I don't derive any pleasure from hiding meaning with bloated prose. If I used big words and a lot of them, it's because I wanted to convey a complex, nuanced idea.
What would you trim?
"Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence." - George Orwell
Some people write
so as to make themselves sound smart. Those people don't want their writing to be accessable because the intent is not to communicate but to intimidate.
Anyway you wanted an example:
This sentence hurts. In the first place it is way too long. When trying to parse the meaning I feel like Theseus, and somebody took my string.
Try this:
Our current system measures itself in terms that count only what is created and not what has been destroyed to make that creation possible- GDP, inflation, interest rates, unemployment, productivity, and so on. Shortsighted focus on immediate gains discourages long term planning or even thinking. Areas with different attributes are expected and required to behave similarly merely to facilitate central planning. Lastly the system as a whole is critically dependent on oil, an unsustainable and fast evaporating resource.
Some of it is just style, but I think my paragraph gets the same ideas across and it doesn't make me reach for the advil :)
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
A sentence shouldn't typically have three semicolons.
I probably should have split it up. Ultimately, I felt that the ideas were so intimately connected that they needed to be tied explicitly together in a single logical structure:
"The system is fraught with problems, and is unsustainable: reason 1; reason 2; reason 3."
Maybe this is a bit clearer:
This pattern is deeply flawed and unsustainable: its metrics make no reference to what is consumed but not replenished; its inertia and myopic incentives preempt long term planning; its hierarchical centralization prioritizes homogeneity over nature’s web of interdependence; and its insatiable thirst for "cheap" fossil-fuels sows the seeds of our destruction.
Anyhow, thanks for the tip. As I said, there's no point in writing in a way that obscures the message.
"Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence." - George Orwell
Empathy
You're right that we're more isolated today in some ways -- we don't know the farmers who grow our food, we don't have town butchers or tailors, everything is large faceless companies. But progress has also made it easier to appreciate adversity faced by people we don't know -- for example see the 24/7 coverage of disasters like Katrina -- and to demonstrate empathy through donations or other aid.
I think empathy is certainly part of any functioning society, but I also think it's most effective with respect to people. If we're discussing a problem like utilization of finite resources, I don't know that you can draw upon people's sympathies to the same degree. It's faceless, abstract; perhaps that's why advocates for drastic measures to combat global warming often use fear rather than empathy to convey their message. Fear is inherently abstract, empathy is personal.
Anyway, when it comes to tragedy of the commons stuff I tend to be wary of hoping people will act nobly and prefer to expect they will act selfishly. I'm not lionizing selfishness as some inherent good ala your choking analogy, I just find it safest to assume people will act in their own self interest. Safest, then, to make that self interest align with the general good, probably via some sort of tax on emissions or the use of finite resources.
Also, I appreciate your point that we can't prevent the Third World from developing because we're worried about the results of our industrialization. Hopefully our own exploration of clean technology will benefit Third World nations -- it's in our interest to sell anything good we come up with to them cheap.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Self-interest, well-understood
Sure, but it’s all very abstract. When terrible tragedies happen halfway across the world, they don’t impact us as if they had occurred just down the street. The largest factor in this is physical distance, of course; we give greater weight to things we actually experience, but emotional distance can be just as critical. If the sum of our relationships with these people is encompassed by monetary transactions at Wal-Mart, or images on TV, we aren’t going to feel the same genuine empathy as when we personally know them. We may be sympathetic, we may be willing to donate money to assuage their suffering, we may even, in an intellectual sense, “understand” what they are going through, but unless we’ve actually endured something similar, or interacted with them, it’s hard to put ourselves in their shoes.
We're never going to "know" everyone, but empathy is an important aspect of our humanity that we let atrophy at our peril. I'm not talking, exclusively, about the extreme case of natural disasters, but the more mundane contributions others make to our lives—things without which a “normal” day would not be possible. When we look at a pencil, or a bag of lettuce, or a car, we see only how much it costs; it’s easy to lose track of who made it and how, what they were paid, how it came to be in our hand, and so forth. These things, in previous eras of human existence, would have been self-evident.
We should NOT regress into pre-industrialism, or reverse the division of labor—which, in any case, is basically impossible barring a collapse of civilization—but should seek to recapture and reintegrate the information lost when our economic system encodes values through prices. It is precisely this information that would allow us to make better choices, and lead to “self-interest, well understood”.
I don’t think fear is the appropriate motivator, because fear overpowers reason (the very faculty we need to overcome our dilemma), and undermines cooperation. Global climate change is too large for individual citizens or states to tackle; it will require a concerted global effort, and reevaluation of how we go about very basic things, such as transportation.
Interestingly, such cooperation is not without precedent in the natural world. A facile understanding of the evolutionary process emphasizes only inter and intra-group competition, but intra-group cooperation can be a huge factor—both in terms of reciprocal altruism that forms in viscous populations subjected to iterated “prisoner’s dilemmas,” and what Kropotkin called “mutual aid”. Evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould wrote a great article
on this subject.
Mutual aid tends to occur in more sparsely populated regions where the chief threat is a hostile environment—as how the emperor penguins in Antarctica survive the coldest part of the winter by banding together. Global warming may require a similar solution because it's an external environmental threat. It's not that simple though, because it simultaneously resembles competition spawning scenarios: ultimately, it’s caused by high population density (requiring correspondingly high energy density), and leads to complications—like resource wars and population displacement—that are exacerbated by scarcity. In other ways, it's also unique and unprecedented; the waste products of our species' lifestyle drives changes to the biosphere as a whole, which is quite unlike a population exceeding the carrying capacity of an ecological niche.
My guess is that any potential solution will likely be as unique, radical and unprecedented, given the fundamental nature, scope, and complexity of the problem.
I think it’s “safe” to say that people act both selfishly and unselfishly. You certainly cannot rely on perfect selflessness, or attempt to eliminate self-interest—it’s stupid, counterproductive, and probably impossible. But the model of “economic man” as an informed, rational utility maximizer is, perhaps, just as deceiving and simplistic. It fails to consider all sorts of psychological, cultural, and non-rational behavioral motivations, as well as information and power asymmetry. For instance, it cannot explain why people tend to tip (just as well) when eating at restaurants they never intend to visit again. When a society creates avenues for the productive expression of only the competitive drive, we shouldn’t be surprised that it’s the one most often expressed.
Aside, I fully support the notion of a carbon tax, preferably in place of FICA.
Agreed.
I place a lot of hope in nuclear fusion. It’s a crime that we spend more, in a week, fighting the Iraq war than our national commitment to ITER
. The same holds true for other sorts of technological development; we need a drastic re-ordering of our priorities.
"Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence." - George Orwell
Short reply
Fortunately, we as consumers can do something to "recapture and reintegrate the information lost when our economic system encodes values through prices" by choosing to purchase goods based on qualities beyond price. If I don't like mass produced crap, I can buy from local merchants. I can purchase fair trade products and boycott companies known to tolerate unsafe working conditions. If enough people find quantities other than price to be important than companies will align their business practices to please customers.
This is a bit outside the scope of the discussion, but hopefully part of the solution will be to spread out the risk so that future problems will concern an ecological niche instead of the "whole biosphere" as regards humanity. Time for colonies in space.
Well, we do support the arts fairly well =) More seriously, what ought we to do to create more avenues for non-competitive expression? How can we reward people for acting selflessly (beyond the satisfaction their actions yield) and should we even try?
Naturally this ties in to the first point about distance as well, since it's easier to screw over (in an economically healthy competitive manner!) some faceless person you don't know than it is your neighbor.
Last point: yes, fusion would be lovely, but until then we should probably expand our use of fission, which is reasonably safe and efficient. Just not in my backyard ;-)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Fission is dead end
limited fuel supply, large costs to start up, and toxic byproducts that are effectively impossible to store safely.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Now Tlolac, you know we have been through this already.
From Global Uranium Resources to Meet Projected Demand Latest Edition of "Red Book" Predicts Consistent Supply Up to 2025
:
AND I even provided you with a Kyoto friendly plan to completely convert to Fast Breeder Reactor technology and completely supply world demand for power that should hold us (the entire world) out for more than 200 years even assuming an exponential growth in demand during that period:
Too easy.
Such a short memory. :)
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
And apparently you didn't learn anything last time
I informed you last time that there are no commercial fast reactors working in the world. In fact if I remember correctly there may not even be any research fast reactors as several of the ones that had existed were closed or scheduled for closing. Not only that but the plants being built are not fast reactors. So you want to to pretend that a marginal technology that is out of favor will not only pan out to be suitable for mass usage but will actually be implemented despite the trend towards the opposite.
This is why I so rarely bother to treat you with anything but scorn- you refuse to learn.
Now what are the odds that the next time this topic comes up you'll repeat your false argument a third time?
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
All accounted for in the plan I provided.
We know how to build the reactors today. We have operating prototypes. All we need to do is commit and build them which my 20 year plan accounts for ... all paid for by the savings we get from ditching Kyoto outright.
20 years down the road we could be 100% fossil fuel free, but my plan depends on YOUR support! Don't let us down.
:)
As for the 2500 year esitmate, don't argue with me, argue with the IAEA since they're the international experts and you like experts. It's their estimate, not mine.
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
uh huh
Did I argue with the 2500 year estimate? No. So you're engaging in strawman arguments as usual.
I'll be sure to consider your plan with all the diligence it deserves.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
P.S.
It's not MY false argument, it is the IAEA's argument so argue with them. The fact that we don't have any breeder reactors currently on-line is irrelevant given that new reactors will need to be built to meet demand. Just build breeder reactors moving forward and phase out the non-breeders as we go along. Shouldn't be difficult at all.
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
No, it is your argument
The IAEA is providing facts, you are using them to argue a position. Your position is faulty because you refuse to acknowledge some other facts.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Actually, I am not discounting facts, you are.
The facts are that we know how to build breeder reactors, so all we need to do is to build them. Something we would need to do anyway if we wanted to increase Nuclear power moving forward.
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
So you;re saying
that you didn't learn anything. I'm shocked.
Additionally you are admitting ignorance to the difference between creating research prototypes and trying to mass produce something for commercial use.
The friction of your ignorance has over come the force of my desire to educate you.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Sorry, you only continue to demonstrate your own
ignorance by not reading the plan I provided. My plan accounts for an explicit time period to take things from prototype to commercially available design.
Bottom line, you're wrong again.
It occurs to me that this sequence of posts is only serving to illustrate how YOU didn't learn anything ... and continue down the same path again and again.
EDIT:
Hey, but don't listen to me listen to the IAEA:
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Suggestion
when you bother to quote something don't choose a passage that does nothing to support your claims.
Seriously, were you just hoping people wouldn't read it? It says nothing that bolsters your case, GoRight.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
I guess I have to spell everything out for you one step
at a time. I keeping forgetting your propensity for linear thinking.
The point of the quote is that the IAEA is basically promoting the same idea that I am: build advanced designs ... including breeder reactors. That and, of course, the fact that they are already pursuing them.
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
And?
An agency tasked with promoting nuclear power is pushing for advanced nuclear reactors. This is supposed to impress me how?
Maybe next you could breathlessly report that the US Department of Education wants more money for schools. The DoD wants bigger more expensive warmachines. Quite the exclusive!
Seriously, take a moment to think about things like sourcing.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
RE: And?
The IAEA is no longer a valid source in your world? I thought that they were "the experts".
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Sources
They are fine sources for some kinds of things, not so much for others. For instance I wouldn't ask them for a good turkey recipe. I also wouldn't ask them if they all deserve 300% raises. In the first case it is outside their field, in the second they have a conflict of interest. I do feel fine asking them about the compliance of say, Iran, Iraq, or North Korea in regards to nuclear programs. Until you learn to understand such matters your posts aren't worth the bandwidth they occupy.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Well, are they competent to speak on matters of
things like the world wide supply of uranium, the energy content therein, and the state of development of advanced designs for breeder reactor power plants?
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Yes.
Now ask if they are experts in whether nuclear energy should be pursued and the answer is "No due to conflict of interest".
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Oh, well, no need to ask that.
I already know that one. Of course we should!
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Seems to work alright
for France and Japan.
I'm not saying it's a long-term solution but it's not a bad stop-gap.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
That's like saying
"oil seems to work for the US."
Sure it does if you only care about the short term. Plus you have to figure that right now Nuclear is not being used all that much which means the fuel supply looks pretty good, but try to convert a good chunk of the US energy consumption to nuclear and see the sustainable lifetime numbers drop.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Unless the newly built reactors are breeder reactors.
Then the sustainable lifetime numbers go WAY up according to the IAEA! :-P
From my GO NUKE plan referenced above:
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Well, we're animals,
and absence any other checks, animals will effectively eliminate themselves by overpopulation and devouring of resources. Happens all the time.
You'd think our advanced brains would make us cognizant of this, but the irony of our existence is that we're not cognizant enough. We're smart enough to see it coming, but not smart enough to stop it. How tragic is that?
Minor nitpick here:
Technically speaking, no it doesn't: all the theory of natural selection suggests is that favorable qualities outdo unfavorable qualities in a given environment. In theory we could all start out as complex beings and simply pass on favorable genes, but that doesn't necessarily prove evolution from simpler beginnings.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Well, pico
Not. I sense a little anthropocentrism here.
Reality is:
Ob-la-di, ob-la-da,
Life goes on, bra
La la how the life goes on
Ob-la-di, ob-la-da
Life goes on, bra
La la how the life goes on
btw, in reference toyour technical correction, it gets worse, the young earth creationists tend to fold modern cosmology into eveolution and use the latter term to refer to and condemn them both. Can be confusing. to the intelligent, like you and me.
Isn't tragedy anthropocentric by nature?
I'm not sure how it could be otherwise.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
In a sense
I suppose, although maybe it's goat-centric.
But i wasn't speaking of tragedy in general. I was speaking, as i'm sure you are aware,of this particular tragedy, and saying that focusing on the loss of humans as a tragedy is anthropocentric when done by a human.
Let's be squeaky clear: The naming of the loss of humans as a tragedy is anthropocentric in this case.
It reminds me of a story a friend told me. seems he was at a stadium in Hong Kong years ago to watch some combat demonstrations, including rifle shooting. A bullet missed the target and got loose, ricocheting around the stadium. The crowd drew in its collective breath and went silent, until the bullet finally hit a small boy who was playing in front of the stands. Much to my friend's surprise, the crowd broke out in laughter. After he had lived in the Far East for a decade, he says he realized that the peopole their often see humour where we see tragedy. I proposed that they may have been only releasing relief that they didn't get hit, where we would have learned that this is not appropriate.
Not sure.
We're unique animals.
All other animals are forced to establish some sort of balance with their surrounding ecosystem--they can overshoot its carrying capacity, but cannot sustain that state by drawing from fossil fuel, as we have.
As for not being smart enough, I've not given up hope just yet. I do, however, have a pretty cynical, non-anthropocentric view: I figure that, if we fail to survive, we didn't deserve to.
I can understand your nitpick; my statement could have been clearer.
You are correct; natural selection operates on the complex AND the simple. However, evolution is the only plausible explanation for complexity. It doesn’t have a bias towards complexity, but only it shows how complexity exists without the need for "miracles," such as spontaneous generation of anything complicated.
"Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence." - George Orwell
pico? Is that you?
This is truly intellecutally honest and enlightened.
[ wipes tears from eyes with back of hand, sniffs lightly ]
It's just so wonderful when you see them grow like this. :)
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree