Conversation with my conservative father
I'm following Ender's lead here, because this isn't really front page material. Still, some of you might find this interesting:
No, this isn't going to be one of those diaries about how my Republican father has suddenly seen the light, nor will it be about how he repeats crazy FOX news talking points while my brother and I laugh and tear them to shreds. Instead, this is just a portrait of one guy who still considers himself a strongly conservative voter, faced with what he knows is a declining Republican party.
We talked for about a half hour, covering the Presidential campaigns and the situation in New Orleans. Here are a few of the more interesting points:
First, a little by way of background. My father's a conservative Catholic who considers the pro-life agenda one of the most important moral debates of our time (sidenote: he's also firmly anti-death penalty, for the same reasons, but considers that a lesser evil than abortion). Until I came out gay a few years ago, he didn't have much positive to say on that issue, either. Change is slow on that topic, but real: he ended our conversation by asking how my better half is doing, and try as he might, he can't help but like the guy.
But overall the roots of his conservativism run deep. He watches FOX news almost exclusively. He considers Bill O'Reilly one of the few sane men on the television. His radio has been tuned to Rush Limbaugh for as long as I can remember. Needless to say, when I'm home we tend to avoid political discussions.
That makes our phone conversation tonight doubly interesting, since he brought it up.
On the Presidential Campaign:
Here's the good news for Democrats: unless Fred Thompson enters and wins the Republican primary, my father is staying home on election day. He absolutely will not vote for Giuliani. He absolutely will not vote for McCain. Don't even ask about the rest of that shallow pool of candidates. And I get the feeling that many Republican voters are not unlike him.
He's unimpressed with anything the GOP is putting forward, but not unimpressed enough to make the switch to the Democrats, whom he considers traitors all around. Most of the Democrats he hates for the expected reasons (Edwards = slimy lawyer, Obama = insubstantial fluff, Clinton = the fourth horseman of the apocalypse), but it's telling that even his intense loathing of Clinton would not trump his inability to pull the lever for his own party.
I just want to highlight that point, because it seems a lot of people feel the exact same way.
Republicans have to know this. You can see from the near-silence at places like RedState and the lackluster excitement that Republican candidates are generating, even on FOX news, that they know this next election is as close to a lost cause as they've faced in years. By no means should that make those of us on the Left apathetic, but it's certainly a cause for guarded optimism.
And this is about the best I can hope for from him. I don't ever expect him to vote Democratic, because that would require so fundamental a shift in his value systems that he'd be near-unrecognizable. We may never see eye-to-eye on certain issues, but this is a good place to start.
On NOLA reconstruction:
A few surprises here, and a few non-surprises. First, he confirmed that New Orleans is facing a huge leadership deficit, first and foremost. Supplies are more expensive, but people aren't getting the aid they need to make up the difference. Fact is, he says, the people doing best are those 1. doing it on their own and 2. helping each other out. My aunt managed to get affordable doors and baseboards because her son-in-law had helped out the woodshop owner on another project, etc. There's a whole system of "I'll help you, and you can pay back the favor later" that allows everyday folk to skip past the pervasive bureaucratic incompetence.
Then he deviated a bit from this Norquistian fantasy to say, "Look, I understand that the government is necessary for a lot of projects. You can't expect people to have the equipment or the resources to build levees, for example."
That's damned right. Now I have to get him to start applying that understanding to other large-scale projects that individuals can't always control, like healthcare and education.
Unfortunately, the NOLA situation is driving him away: he'll be looking for another job soon. Even if the level of cynicism towards a city he never liked weren't enough, the multi-hour commute to see my mother on weekends is just too hard. I can't blame him for the latter, although I'm happy to say that I didn't inherit his intense dislike of our hometown. Right now, it's easier for people who dislike the place to see their worst fears confirmed: as if it weren't hard enough for people to rebuild on their own, they're finding their half-reconstructed homes raided and ripped late at night by people who sell the supplies for profit, like copper wire, etc.
I don't know what kind of person it takes to steal from someone who's already lost everything. I don't think I want to know. Add to that a major regional cocaine bust in town (and I'm sorry to say I'm acquainted with some of the people involved), and sometimes the demons of cynicism can be hard to battle off.
Still, I take what I can from this: some pride in the way locals are helping each other through the situation, and some lingering optimism that my father's death-grip on Republican talking points has become a little looser in the past year or so.
We'll see how things develop over the next few months. For now at least we've discovered some unexpected common ground, and the longest phone conversation we've had in years.
(Originally posted at dkos - with minor edits - because we had a pleasantly unexpected glut of FP posts last night)
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Comments :
Touching story
While it may seem trivial to some, I can imagine how exciting you felt after hanging up the phone.
Bill O, and Rush........ ackkkkkk what a headache that would be to deal with.
Sad that politics would interfere with family relations. I know in 04 I wanted to scratch my own brothers eyes out. I had no idea he was such a conservative hack!!!!! (Thanks Karl!)
It would be so hard to watch a city in such disarry affecting so many people. But as mentioned in your K Vonnegut dairy...... all we can hope for is nice.
I am glad you and your father shared a nice moment. Albiet only on the phone. It does sound like he is softening. I note these types are often old softies at heart. God, Country and Apple PIe. Those were the days.
True story: I have a gay black friend. I asked him which was more difficult being black or being gay. He said definitely gay.
I was visiting at the table with his family one evening, prattling on about some movie, "Playgirl" about the gay guy that posed in mags for girls for a long time without letting on that he was gay. Chatty me...... looked up from the table and realized that my gay friend was giving me the death ray look. Even though everyone knew he was gay (for years) they had never spoken about it openly. Awwwwkkward!
It is the economy, stupid.
You father sounds like someone
who actually has their head on straight. I can agree with his positions (expressed above) almost word for word.
The only things I would "tweak" are:
1) I would also vote for Newt.
2) I would vote for almost anyone to keep Billary out of the White House.
On the NOLA situation, I agree it is depressing. But from my perspective, it sounds like the people who are doing the best are the ones that are making it happen for themselves which is pretty much what Republicans mean when we talk about personal responsibility, at least IMHO.
It is good to hear that you had a nice conversation with him either way. :-)
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Hmm.
Why do you feel you need to tweak the political positions of pico's father?
That seems strangely weak, sad and and oddly self centered.
It is the economy, stupid.
I think he's just expressing his opinion
which is, after all, why we're all here...
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I am merely expressing
where my opinion differs from that of his father. I would have thought that obvious.
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
ha, one part I left out
is that he has an outstanding bet with me that, as I get older, I'll slowly turn Republican. Not only that: but I'll eventually come to see Bush as one of our truly great presidents. He does actually believe this. :D
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
I would also bet that as you get older
you will become more "conservative". Everyone does (almost), but even I wouldn't expect you to come to the point of singing the praises of Bush.
I can see why he would feel that way though. :-)
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
It's supposedly a common track
to start off young, idealistic, and liberal - and end up cold, cynical, and conservative.
However (notwithstanding the fact that our own demographics here don't support it), I have a few trump cards that may slow my downward slide:
1. gay.
2. polyglot who spends a lot of time overseas
3. ivory tower academic
Sheesh, looking at that short resume, it's a surprise I'm not chained to a barrier reef with Greenpeace!
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
let's just say
you have plenty of room to improve :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Understood.
I would have mentioned #1 because you mentioned it above but I don't feel that I know you well enough to make such a reference. I agree that as a member of the gay community you are likely to be well buttressed against any such slide into unfettered conservatism. :-)
As for #2 and #3 I was not aware of these but agree with your assessment of their relevance as well.
I would, however, second Ender's statement above that this all just gives you lots of room for improvement!
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Wrong
I have become much more partisan Democratic over the last 20 years. I started out as a Republican -- canvassed for Nixon in 72 and voted for Ford in 76.
And, yes, I have a mortgage and kids and pay taxes and live in Alabama. If I followed form, I'd have a W sticker on the back of my truck, a No. 3 sticker in the rear window and a Confederate battle flag license plate on the front.
qui tacet consentire
Wow!
Campaigned for Nixon, in '72!!!!!
What changed your voting habits?
It is the economy, stupid.
Never would have guessed any of this...
You couldn't pull the lever for Jimmy Carter in '76? Yet, I take it that you didn't vote for Reagain in '80, so you must've voted for Carter then, I'm guessing. Interesting-- I can't imagine that there were many who didn't vote for Carter in '76 who voted for him in '80.... You must be a 'true' Reagan Democrat, i.e. Reagan turned you into a Democrat...
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
yeah
what went wrong?
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Well, we can't all be "normal"!
:-)
Just kidding. While I believe in the trend being discussed here, not everyone will necessarily follow it. It is not like it is a universal truth or something.
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Hooray
I was beginning to think that I was the oldest one here.
Oh, darn, that makes me and GoRight the middle children. . . .
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran
Nope. I'm the oldest of three.
I started out as being very, very liberal in my late teens/twenties. In my late twenties, thirties and beyond, I developed somewhat of an independent streak in me, though I'm still liberal on most things.
I thought the Republicans were the liberals
And came to a very slow political education until college. Even then I used to say that when it came to the spectrum from the Infa-Red to the Ultra-Violent, I was a Sound wave.
Now both are the Gang Of Pirates, and I support any opposition to them, not so much because they are the personification of good, as much as the GOP has unified evil.
Over time my political thinking has gotten richer, as I have come to understand at a level of detail I did not have before, but I don't think there would be marked change of overall thinking, perhaps as I pass the four score years I will become that brain damaged but it hasn't gotten that bad yet.
The Self Made Man is just not admitting where he got all the parts.